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**The Official Shoe Care Thread: Tutorials, Photos, etc.**

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Mr. Moo, Feb 28, 2011.

  1. patrickBOOTH

    patrickBOOTH Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Did I patronize benhour? No. Again, leather is acidic, saddle soap isn't so why use it other than you personally like to?
     
  2. benhour

    benhour Senior member

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    Shell cordovan in the making-tanning process is fused with waxes that's why it has this characteristic texture (really smooth and make these huge "creases") !! i dont think conditioners can get really deep or any at all in it cause of this high wax content! Btw conditioners ll dissolve Alden defender really easily if there is not a big amount of silicon in it!!

    the spots occurs from moisture trap under the wax surface and if i remember correctly Mr Rider have given a tip for that(renovateur if i remember correctly but i am not sure) !!

    i would try it in the tongue before application to be sure for no stains occurs!
     
    1 person likes this.
  3. dieworkwear

    dieworkwear Senior member

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    Yea, I tried that. It helps, I think, but some spotting still occurs. Not really that big of a deal, to be honest, but the Alden guys sometimes talk about Leather Defender, so I bought a bottle to try out. Just wanted to run it by some respected voices here.
     
  4. chogall

    chogall Senior member

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    Quote:
    Irrelevant to my point.

    Since the start of this conversation, I've already indicated, with MSDS from manufacturers, two of your claims were not true. 1) Saddle soap is not highly alkaline. 2) Saddle soap is not straight castile soap.

    I am asking specifically where's the verification for your claim that saddle soap makes leather brittle. The science is logical, makes sense, but that's it. No experiment, no data to your claim. Maybe some credible sources from non-vendors?
     
  5. tharkun

    tharkun Senior member

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    Last edited: Oct 9, 2015
  6. chogall

    chogall Senior member

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    Nice. Something I haven't read before.

    Vendor marketing/SEO.

    ? Logic replaces experiments, data, reviews? This isn't exactly applied math or information theory dude.
     
  7. patrickBOOTH

    patrickBOOTH Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Ok Chogall, go ahead keep using saddle soap despite enough evidence, science and logic that states that it isn't ok to.
     
  8. patrickBOOTH

    patrickBOOTH Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Ok, but the reason for not using saddle soap remains, it's above the isoelectric point of leather fibers. That was the point, which you ignore.

    Where's scientific studies that prove saddle soap is beneficial?

    The pure fact that finished leather is acidic and saddle soap isn't should be enough to not use the stuff.
     
  9. chogall

    chogall Senior member

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    I don't plan on stop using saddle soap or whatever thats in my shoe shine cabinet. It removes grit and mud wonderfully well without leaving my boots/gloves dry compare to using water alone. So far they did not untan my boots or turn them brittle after almost a decade.

    I also have Lexol pH neutral cleaner in addition to my saddle soap but its not as easy to use to clean heavily soiled shoes compare to just water, saddle soap, and a stiff brush. The difference in pH? 8 of Saddle vs 6-7 of Lexol, both much higher than leather except saddle soap is most oftentimes used diluted.

    p.s., your hypothesis makes sense, on paper, but is it true in practice? Who knows. There's this case on the Leather Chemist forum where some guy used saddle soap and leather honey on 500 years old saddle and it disintegrates but who knows the condition of that antique leather? And here's a quote in that same thread.
    Quote:
     
  10. Newberry

    Newberry Senior member

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    [​IMG]

    Hello. I was told I would most likely get the answer I was looking for here so here's my question: Does anybody know what I can do to get rid of the black spot on this Wolverine boot? Or at least make it less noticeable. The boots are made of oiled leather (if that makes any difference). Thanks..
     
  11. rbhan12

    rbhan12 Senior member

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    Hydrogen bonding by definition is weak. Anyone or anything that tells you otherwise either doesn't know chemistry or is trying to simplify things for you. This is why water evaporates but doesn't explode.

    Collagen is a protein.

    Isoelectric point at which a molecule has no charge due to ions in solution (and consequently pH). If you're below the isoelectric point, your molecules have a net positive charge, and thus you need a negatively charged molecule bind effectively. Similarly, if you have a net negatively charged molecule (above the isoelectric point), you need a positively charged molecule to bind effectively.
     
    1 person likes this.
  12. rbhan12

    rbhan12 Senior member

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    This may be the case for vegetable tanning, but a look at the details of chrome tanning on wikipedia, chrome-tanning makes strong cross links (covalent bonds) with collagen.
     
    1 person likes this.
  13. Nick V.

    Nick V. Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Not easy for a laymen to do but, if you are going to try it, it will take some patience.

    Find a crayon as close as possible to the color of your boot.
    Soften it with some heat.
    Fill in the area.
    Let it set.
    With the back of a spoon, gently rub out the area until there is no wax causing any seams around the area.

    You will see a difference in color. That's normal.
    Use masking tape to tape the top of the welt. What you are doing is protecting the welt and white stitching for the next process.

    Get some leather spray as close as possible to the color of your boot.

    Lightly (and I stress LIGHTLY) mist the area to blend in. You should do the same thing on the toe of the other boot to match.

    Let it set until completely dry.

    Lightly apply a coat of conditioner.
     
    1 person likes this.
  14. itsjimmyh

    itsjimmyh New Member

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    How do I take care of Horween Smooth Chamois Leather?

    Here's the shoe I bought.
    Just recently got into shoes, and so far I've only bought a shoe tree to put in it when I don't wear them.

    I've noticed that when water droplets fall on the shoe, the shoe immediately soaks it in. I guess that is the nature of a chamois leather

    How could this shoe look with proper care?
    What tools will I need?

    [​IMG]
     
  15. peppercorn78

    peppercorn78 Senior member

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    I have limited experience with chamois, but from what little I know, it seems like a low-maintenance "rough" sort of leather. As in, meant to be abused and not worried about.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2015
  16. Nick V.

    Nick V. Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Welcome to SF. If you want to play it safe use this stuff as directed: http://www.amazon.com/VECTRA-Ultimate-Apparel-Protector-Handbags/dp/B004X23DJ6
     
    1 person likes this.
  17. M635Guy

    M635Guy Senior member

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    Nick - does that stuff have silicone? Says a lot of things there but doesn't say "no silicone" in the description or the Q/A. I'm probably missing something obvious...

    Quote:
    In addition to the product noted above, for water resistance you can also consider Saphir Invulner, which is pricey, but definitely non-silicone and stated to be safe for suedes and standard leathers. Lots of folks like the Tarrago Nano spray as well.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2015
    1 person likes this.
  18. benhour

    benhour Senior member

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    I think i already said that i am not a native speaker so trying translate scientific terms i see or remember in Greek to English is not the easiest thing (and maybe some times not as accurate as a professional would do)! So i give you all my apologies for that!

    The strength of hydrogen bonding reducing as the halide radius increase but strong hydrogen bonds can even occur to the hydrogen atoms in metal hydrides (for example, LiH····HF; The current view of the hydrogen bond has been reviewed in the late years and comparison to halogen bonds is made! (copy paste phrase from uk science university (chemistry department) a friend college professor sent me and i have to admit i could never be able to find it in my books).
    Hydrogen bonds can vary in strength from very weak (1–2 kJ mol−1) to extremely strong (161.5 kJ mol−1 in the ion HF−
    2
    ).[8][9] Typicalenthalpies in vapor include:

    • F−H…:F (161.5 kJ/mol or 38.6 kcal/mol)
    • O−H…:N (29 kJ/mol or 6.9 kcal/mol)
    • O−H…:O (21 kJ/mol or 5.0 kcal/mol)
    • N−H…:N (13 kJ/mol or 3.1 kcal/mol)
    • N−H…:O (8 kJ/mol or 1.9 kcal/mol)

    (copy paste from wikipedia and some science documentation i had in my electronic archive).


    Collagen is a fibrous protein group (Collagen is called the group of the proteins for example brevity(3 proteins mostly in the same row) and wrongly some times assumed to be a protein itself )
    The name collagen comes from the Greek κόλλα (kólla), meaning "glue", and suffix -γέν, -gen, denoting "producing"

    I think i said exactly the same thing about isoelectric point! (sorry for trying to say it simplified but when is going to science even if i can understand everything when i read it , its not the same thing to write it!)

    This is the last post i write about this thing and i think we all overdone it with chemistry!!

    I hope i was at least informative and helped some thing to be more clear to everyone!! Lets get back on topic Gentlemen and care-shine some shoes!![​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2015
    1 person likes this.
  19. rbhan12

    rbhan12 Senior member

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    A pretty standard measure of the strength of covalent bonds is the C-H bond in almost all organic compounds. That's abot 100 kcal/mol, or about 420 kJ/mol. The strongest H bond you've given is the bifluoride ion, which is a whopping 39% as strong as a covalent bond. H-bonds are weak by definition. They easily break and reform under normal conditions.

    Collagen is a multi-helical protein complex with individual protein subunits, which if memory serves correctly are cross-linked (covalently bonded) to each other. It's the same way that Hemoglobin is a protein that is made of 4 separate protein subunits. They still come together and act as one. Collagen is a protein, feel free to think otherwise, but you'd simply be wrong.
     
    1 person likes this.

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