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**The Official Shoe Care Thread: Tutorials, Photos, etc.**

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Mr. Moo, Feb 28, 2011.

  1. patrickBOOTH

    patrickBOOTH Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Well, I would say that your mistake was letting the renovateur sit before buffing. IME, reno is really hard to buff out if let to dry too long. It gets gunky for whatever reason. I'm not sure what the deal is with black streaks, but my initial feeling is too use just a very small amount over the shoe again and buff without letting it sit. Just give it enough time to apply to both shoes and then immediately buff them after application in the order you applied it. If a second light coat and buffing doesn't help, I'd go the stripping route...
     
  2. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    It's in the description. Surface dyed leathers are only dyed in the grain.--the dye does not penetrate all the way to the corium. If you cut into such leathers and they are chrome tanned they will have a "blue" core.

    A "struck through" leather is dyed all the way through and if you cut it it will be the same colour in the interior as on the surface.

    I occasionally buy a "French Calf" from a wholesaler in Houston that is struck through. Where it comes from, he's not saying. Annonay has a great French calf but it is not struck through.

    I have been told that high quality chrome tanned calf skins are hard to strike through unless the grain surface has been "snuffed" or treated in some way.

    Most chrome tanned leathers are surface dyed only...not all, mind you, but I suspect it takes more time and effort (expense) to drive the dye from the flesh to the grain. and most, but not all chrome tanned leathers have a somewhat opaque "paint job" on the grain surface to reinforce the surface dye.
     
  3. chogall

    chogall Senior member

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    From what I've seen at least box calf and museum calf are struck through.

    I've only seen a small subsets of leathers and not an expert in any way.
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. chogall

    chogall Senior member

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    I

    Reno for too long; it dissolved the finishes and bunched them up.

    Reno is best for waxed up leathers, not brand new shoes.
     
  5. smoothie1

    smoothie1 Senior member

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    Reno is harsh. Don't buy into the aggressive marketing. It is not suitable for all leather.

    To the poster with streaks on his Carmina, stripping the leather and building up polish afterwards is probably the best bet for fixing the problem caused by renovateur. Best of luck.
     
  6. RogerP

    RogerP Senior member

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    I've never had any issue with Renovateur being harsh. I can't say for sure, but it sounds to me like jsofia may well have used too much of the product and left it on too long ('letting it soak'?). A very thin coat is all I use, then brisk brushing once it hazes over, then buff with a soft cloth. I've consistently obtained good results on many pairs of shoes over many years. I never read the marketing hype in support of the product. But I also don't place much stock in a lot of the forum hype against it.
     
  7. traverscao

    traverscao Senior member

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    @patrickBOOTH , Reno is a stripper.







    It gives people artificial "orgy" and take away their wallets whilst not giving them anything worthy. LOL!!!
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2015
  8. traverscao

    traverscao Senior member

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    Veg retanned is a hybrid crap, really.

    Undyed vegetable tanned is the highest of the standard I look for. If the shoemaker, or the leather supplier, does not supply the leather of my request, I would still accept dyed veg. tanned hides.
     
  9. traverscao

    traverscao Senior member

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    How come both sides of skins were always black, DW?
     
  10. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    "Black"?? Where did that come from?

    Both sides of the skin may be dyed and the leather still not struck through...you wouldn't expect the leather to be dyed only on the grain surface and the fleshside left chrome blue, would you?

    And, FWIW, as someone who has used chrome and veg and retan, I disagree with your assessment of retan.
     
  11. Fred G. Unn

    Fred G. Unn Senior member

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    Who do you have make your shoes? I've only done a handful of MTOs (and never done bespoke) but I guess I've never gone into the detail of requesting that much information about the leather they are using. Who you use and what leather do they have available?
     
  12. traverscao

    traverscao Senior member

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    Sorry. I was supposed to ask for why they were always seen dyed on both sides, since it appears black on black, or brown on brown, blue on blue... and so forth.

    In regards to the flesh side being colored, I cannot see a specific reason to why the flesh side being dyed when the whole skin itself is not struck through. It's weird, to say the least, out of respect.

    I know my assessment of retan is harsh. I cannot expect everybody, especially a shoemaker, to totally agree with me.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2015
  13. traverscao

    traverscao Senior member

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    Fred, I have yet the time to go to a bespoke shoemaker. I'm trying to clear my schedule just for a gasp of air. There is even a possibility of moving from Washington, Pacific North West, to California. The situation posted above is just a proposed hypothesis, and thus, should not be really taken to heart. However, if anything, I will always try and request for leather's information from the maker, even talking to the tannery if I have to.

    Apart from aesthetic requirement, construction, and last shape, the last step is to choose either a suitable or a top grade material to go with the design. Sad on how this last step is often set aside.
     
  14. chogall

    chogall Senior member

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    Wait what? The exact tannin recipes are trade secrets to each firm. How could you says hat veg tanned shoes are hybrid crap without knowing anything about it?!?
     
  15. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    No, it's not weird, I suspect it's just a function of the way the leather is dyed--the mechanics of dyeing. I am pretty sure that they dip the whole hide in a dye bath.

    The thing is that when you dye a piece of leather with a sponge, for instance, rather than a bath, the dye tends to "strike" unevenly. So you end up with something that looks a lot like museum calf...which is very rustic and appealing to some but fundamentally unevenly coloured. (How museum calf is actually dyed...I don't know).

    Dipping or running the hide through a dye bath will strike evenly...and, by default, on both sides.

    And incidentally, it's good marketing.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2015
    1 person likes this.
  16. chogall

    chogall Senior member

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    1. Drummed dyed. When hide is in a drum they don't have much choic of which side contacts the dye.
    2. Don't think many shoemakers will agree with you at all; at most they will decline to answer. Besides, any tanneries agree with your outlandish and made-up claims?
     
  17. chogall

    chogall Senior member

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    You can always ask tailors to make jackets with shirt fabric, umbrella makers to make umbrella with Kleenex tissues, or shoemakers to make shoes with oak bark veg tanned outsold leather.

    They will politely refuse your request and recommend proper materials for the bespoken item.
     
  18. traverscao

    traverscao Senior member

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    1. Read my quote again.
    2. Claims are all made-up. Only evidence should back them up. I have plenty of evidence backing my claim. It's just that I am too tiresome these days to go for the whiny bull crap. If the shoemaker declines to answer, I have no choice but to terminate the project, because I have the right to know. It's not like RTW, where that right is nowhere valid enough. I don't need tanneries to agree with me, because tanneries benefits themselves personally through selling craps for a lot of times.
     
  19. traverscao

    traverscao Senior member

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    If anything, I'll bring my own material. It isn't like such thing had never happened.

    Take note of my statement, because before you can recall to look back at my posts, I said I was going to curry some traditional reversed waxed calf, so it should not be too weird.
     
  20. traverscao

    traverscao Senior member

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    I think we, especially myself though, may have largely abused the term "struck through" then, because the way I see it, the dye does not go anywhere through, as you put it. "Drum dyed" is the correct mechanical term, would it?
     

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