**The Official Shoe Care Thread: Tutorials, Photos, etc.**

[jd13jd13]

There's this:

Please remember if you're asking for product recommendations I'm only an expert with our products.

So I guess you can really on the Rep's knowledge of Bickmore products more than other things, such as coconut oil.
Something else that I noticed from reading this thread and others like it, is that in shoe care, there are few universally agreed in rules, much of it is opinion. More so, even people who do have lots of experience can be completely incorrect at times. I just try to focus on the stuff that makes sense to me.

 

[PCK1]

this thread has become a bunch of "he says, she says" that is utterly useless to anyone.

 

[DWFII]



this thread has become a bunch of "he says, she says" that is utterly useless to anyone.

I have to take issue with that statement. Esp.when you consider the context.

First, as mentioned repeatedly, it is difficult, if not impossible, to extract any useful information about the ingredients from any of these companies. You'd think it was Coca-Cola for all the secrecy.

Second, there are people here who have long term, quantifiable insights into the products and the techniques associated with the care and maintenance of shoes and leather. All you have to do is read the posts.

Third, while the talk about conditioners and other products is often somewhat amorphous and unresolvable, that's not all this thread is about. And many discussions...in this thread...focus on other aspect of shoes and what's good for them and not.

I agree, any post that is devoid of reason, rationale and logic...explanation, IOW...is likely to be near-as-nevermind worthless. But in the context of StyleForum itself, that approach is almost the norm. I would guess that on any given day 90% of the posts made to this forum are uninformed or ill-informed opinion devoid of any constructive or substantiated content.

How many "Beautiful shoe!" and "Wonderful colour" and "I agree completely"...without a rationale to accompany or justify the obsequiousness...can people tolerate before they get physically nauseous? Yet such posts seem to be the norm rather than the exception...everywhere but in threads such as this one. Rejoice in what is here, because there is a lot...if one is open to it.

And even here, ever now and again, you get the trolls and troll-friends who poke their snouts in under the tent to stir up trouble with ignorant, valueless, substance-less, content-less tweets. I don't like it any better than you do, but it's part of the price of admission, I suppose.

 

[rutabaga]

While there may be a lot of back and forth, I think the thread is still useful to me. I view it as a two steps forward, one step back sort of education. Maybe the right ratio is something like 10 steps forward 9 steps back, but I still feel that knowledge is increasing over the long haul. Many thanks to DWFII at various times for being evenhanded and quasi-moderating.

Edit: and DWFII comes in and Pipps (sic?) me. That guy is everywhere at all times!

 

[patrickBOOTH]

I agree based on a lot of what that Bickmore rep said as being unreliable. The MSDS clearly has a silicone on it. Still might be a great product, but that particular rep didn't seem very knowledgeable past simple salesmanship.

 

[patrickBOOTH]



On the other hand, he was clear and adamant that Bickmore did not use or favour silicone.

Maybe he's not lying, but just ignorant of it and repeating a mantra. He didn't seem like he was very high up the food chain.

AMA: Ask Me Anything (as long as it's not what our products contain) lol

 

[Stirling]



Something else that I noticed from reading this thread and others like it, is that in shoe care, there are few universally agreed in rules, much of it is opinion. More so, even people who do have lots of experience can be completely incorrect at times. I just try to focus on the stuff that makes sense to me.

I think that's a very sensible and reasonable view.

There is more than just mere opinion in the world of leather care and a lot of it has been agreed upon for decades by those who work in the field. There may be nuanced differences and some may favour one technique over another, but all the techniques will be recognised and established.

The reason imho there is a lack of consensus on forums like this is because those who have some expertise in the matter are often engaged in lengthy ping pong exchanges with problematic posters who possess little knowledge. To the casual reader it might appear as if 1) there is a difference of opinions only, or 2) there is no consensus or 3) it's a pointless argument over semantics

In any case that's my take on it and thank you for posting the original link

 

[patrickBOOTH]

Why Nivea, Stirling?

 

[DWFII]



Maybe he's not lying, but just ignorant of it and repeating a mantra. He didn't seem like he was very high up the food chain.

AMA: Ask Me Anything (as long as it's not what our products contain) lol

You're right.

That said, it's not the silicone that I'm used to seeing in association with leathercare products. Bick4 is not waterproof and exhibits none of the waterproofing or occlusive qualities that I associate with silicone.

I don't know...maybe I'll call them again and ask point blank.

 

[Stirling]



Why Nivea, Stirling?

To be honest any simple moisturising cream will do. Nivea is just a recognisable brand and product, but I must say I have not looked into its ingredients for many years. For all I know it could be full of silicones and parabens.

 

[Stirling]



You're right.

....not waterproof and exhibits none of the waterproofing or occlusive qualities that I associate with silicone.

I'm sorry I don't quite understand what you mean by that.

 

[DWFII]



While there may be a lot of back and forth, I think the thread is still useful to me. I view it as a two steps forward, one step back sort of education. Maybe the right ratio is something like 10 steps forward 9 steps back, but I still feel that knowledge is increasing over the long haul. Many thanks to DWFII at various times for being evenhanded and quasi-moderating.

Edit: and DWFII comes in and Pipps (sic?) me. That guy is everywhere at all times!

Not really...just in threads pertaining to shoes or leather--the only subjects I'm qualified to offer an opinion about.

And usually only when I have a student here (as now)...then I'm often literally waiting on the student to finish a particular task. Plus when I have a student, explaining and delineating my reasoning and logic is expected of me...which considering I'm already naturally inclined in that direction and more than a little loquacious is no real burden.

 

[Munky]

If you are thinking of Nivea in the context of your feet, Patrick, it wouldn't be appropriate treatment for them. You really do need to see a podiatrist. If some of those sores are as deep as they look, they may have to be 'packed' to allow them to heal from the bottom, upwards. What you don't want is for them to simply 'heal over', leaving an empty space under the new skin. Also, they look a bit infected to me and that needs to be looked at. Dressings would certainly help but don't just by a packet of plasters from the nearest store.

I worked in the health care domain for 40 years.

 

[Stirling]



I worked in the health care domain for 40 years. 

 

[DWFII]



I'm sorry I don't quite understand what you mean that.

Just saying that if I apply silicone (I have three different versions/compounds in my shop) to a piece of leather it will waterproof it and I will not be able to subsequently wet the leather...not without some difficulty, at any rate.

But I apply Bick4 lavishly in some case/situations, and repeatedly, and I never see that waterproofing character. I can literally plain-water-wash excess off. And again, subsequent wetting of the leather (critical for some operations such as lasting of boots and folding of edges) is no problem.

If, as some assert, silicone is inert and if it is indeed in Bick4 but not occluding the leather....as the lack of waterproofing would imply...then I'm almost indifferent to its presence.

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