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**The Official Shoe Care Thread: Tutorials, Photos, etc.**

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Mr. Moo, Feb 28, 2011.

  1. patrickBOOTH

    patrickBOOTH Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I'm curious for a too-long shoe, what is the better option a tongue pad, or heel pad? Which is the lesser of the evils?
     
  2. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    The real question is "which is the lesser of two weevils?" The smaller one, obviously...or maybe not. It's a conundrum.

    Similarly...

    Anything that displaces the foot, and esp. the heel to ball measurement, such that it isn't in its proper place relative to the last and the way the last was designed is going to cause long term distortion of the foot. The tongue pad isn't going to cause any additional damage that the "too-long' shoe isn't already causing. It's no different than stuffing kleenex in your bra...or potatoes in your jock strap.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2014
  3. Roger la Rock

    Roger la Rock Senior member

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    That is actually my foot. You mentioned the condition a little higher on the same page; pes cavus. It runs in my family. My feet flatten out somewhat when I'm standing, but the height and girth of my forefoot does make it difficult to find shoes that fit well enough
     
  4. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    I wondered but I am more used to identifying pes cavus from the footprint. Also, your first (the big toe) is sprung way high--that's not, AFAIK, automatically associated with pes cavus.
     
  5. Roger la Rock

    Roger la Rock Senior member

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    Toes bent up and clawed is common with pes cavus. You may not notice it so much when the foot is bearing weight. The photo was taken sitting down with my feet out in front of me with my feet in a neutral position for that posture, and the photo rotated through 90 degrees. That angle dramatises the position of the toes.
     
  6. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    From what I know (not all that much in this regard), hammer toes and clawed toes while not necessarily symptomatic are surely a possible symptom. I guess I never thought of the type of formation in the photo as being "clawed." "Clawed" speaks to me as being like a claw--curved downward, maybe more like hammer toes.

    That said, I am not a doctor, I do not have the condition myself and, in accordance with Oregon law, I don't do orthopedic work., so I readily defer to your experience and knowledge. When I do...rarely...see indication of pes cavus it is generally just a slight gap in the footprint along the lateral waist/arch.
     
  7. Roger la Rock

    Roger la Rock Senior member

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    I couldn't call myself an expert, just the owner of such fine feet. By clawed I mean the toes are bent up, with the more distal joints being bent down which is the posture my toes take when standing.

    There are a number of different forms of pes cavus. I suspect we are discussing different forms; purely high arches, vs. high arches with varus deformity (the foot rotated inwards), and the associated toe deformity.

    A gap in the footprint suggests a more neutral stance. I supinate, walking more on the outside edges of my feet, so my foot remains in contact along the outside edge.
     
  8. sacafotos

    sacafotos Senior member

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    A cobbler just told me to not use Lexol on leather soles because it will soak through and loosen the "glue" and stitching. Hmm.
     
  9. Nick V.

    Nick V. Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Nonsense
     
  10. Nick V.

    Nick V. Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I won't do orthoepic adjustments either. The only time I will is with a Dr's prescription. And even with that only simple accommodations.
    Heel lifts, bars, basic things of that nature. Anything else is beyond the realm I'm comfortable with.
    If there is a podiatrist reading it would be interesting if you weighed in here.
     
  11. Roger la Rock

    Roger la Rock Senior member

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    Thanks for the responses DWF & Nick. I'm not looking for orthopedic advice, I just posted the photo in response to Munky. Despite appearances my feet are functioning well. I know my gait is not ideal, but it works for me.

    I've had inserts in the past when I've had plantar fasciitis (possibly brought on by poorly constructed shoes), but never liked them. You correct one issue, but create another. I found the solution was to wear either properly constructed shoes, or none at all. Shoes that flex in the wrong places, overly soft running shoes where you're standing on squishy foam with no solid base, gimmicks like air cells, all bad ideas.

    My biggest problem with shoes is finding ones that will accommodate my forefoot without being loose in the heel.
     
  12. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    Well, Lexol does make a neatsfoot oil product--Lexol-nf. I suppose if the shoes were soaked in it (and I've seen people do that) it could affect the adhesive. But as strong as that adhesive is, eventually it breaks down under the use and ultraviolet rays etc.. That's why...no matter what adhesive is used ...sewing the outsole on is always to be preferred over cement sole construction.



    I apologize if I came across as offering orthopedic advice--I am not qualified to give orthopedic advice. I guess one always runs that risk when commiserating with others. I have what comes close to being pes planar. But, aside from what I hope is a transitory neuropathy, my feet are healthy and fully functional --with zero pain. Years ago, a podiatrist told me that shape or structure does not indicate a pathology. If feet are functional and not experiencing debilitating discomfort they're more or less normal.

    That's what I was getting at when I commented on heel liners and tongue pads.

    I would think it could be nigh onto impossible...short of MTO or bespoke.
     
  13. patrickBOOTH

    patrickBOOTH Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    This is interesting. I have always applied Lexol to the lining and insoles of my shoes and I was always careful not to over apply it there in case it seeps under the insole. I was always afraid of the glue that holds the gemming in place becoming loosened from the conditioner. Then again there aren't any solvents in Lexol so I guess it is a non-issue...
     
  14. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    Ah! But there are solvents in All Purpose cements. When cements and oils mix, the cement always looses--they're natural antagonists. You can't, for instance, use a solvent based adhesive to cement together two pieces of leather if one of them is stuffed.

    That said, putting Lexol-brown on your linings and insoles occasionally probably won't affect the construction, but the cement used on gemming is AP. One of the things we value leather for is its permeability. Too much conditioner of any kind...and it would have to be way too much...can penetrate through the insole, esp. if we are talking about thin insoles such as manufacturers use with GY (there was a recent discussion in the EG thread about insole thicknesses that might bear on this point).
     
  15. Nick V.

    Nick V. Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    A/E were offering several styles on combination lasts (wide vamps/narrow heels)
    I don't know if they still are. You may want to contact their cs dept. and ask.
     
  16. Munky

    Munky Senior member

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    I have to wear arch supports in all but one pair of my shoes (and not in my trainers). This discussion reminded me that, as a young child, I used have occasional, spontaneous, fractures of a bone in one of my feet and had to wear an insert in my shoe on that foot.Time went by and it is only in recent years that I have had to wear supports in both shoes. I presume that your feet, like everything else, wear out a bit as you get older. Or would be it be argued that I should be able to buy shoes that fit and fit without the inserts? I would have thought that the fact that inserts are sold at all, suggests that not everyone can wear shoes without them.
     
  17. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    Depends on the kind of insert. Some people need corrective or orthopedic inserts but these have to be prescribed by a doctor in most states/countries.

    If you're talking about simple over-the-counter cushioned inserts, well, some people think they can't wear shoes without them. And if we harken back to what pB said about running shoes and the like, it may be true esp. if the person isn't willing to toughen up (we say "cowboy up" out here) their feet.

    But aside from mollycoddling tender feet, I doubt retail inserts do much.

    That said you have one pair of shoes that don't need the arch supports? Maybe that's an indication that your feet don't need arch supports, just shoes that support your arches.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2014
  18. patrickBOOTH

    patrickBOOTH Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I can walk on hot coals at this point!
     
  19. Munky

    Munky Senior member

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    Thanks for that, DWF. I still don't know why the one pair of shoes fits without supports. I have tried a range of sizes, lasts and fittings. Apart from the one pair (which are very ordinary and 'standard') nothing feels comfortable without the inserts.

    pB. I intend to take legal action regarding your photo.
     
  20. patrickBOOTH

    patrickBOOTH Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I have been getting a lot of feedback about my avatar. Clearly, I have been successful.
     

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