**The Official Shoe Care Thread: Tutorials, Photos, etc.**

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Mr. Moo, Feb 28, 2011.

  1. David Copeland

    David Copeland Senior member

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    Collinil 1909 is available in different sizes at Amazon. CLICK HERE

    Saphir Products can be found in the following links:

    LINK 1

    LINK 2

    You may also consider the color guide for a more accurate match:

    [​IMG]
     
  2. Munky

    Munky Senior member

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    Excuse me, but what is the difference between 'handmade' and 'handcrafted' shoes?

    Also, is the debate of different types of welt a matter of 'marginal gains'? I would imagine that neither Goodyear nor Blake are going to fall apart, quickly, when attached to good shoes. I would also assume that the wearer doesn't feel any difference between the two.
     
  3. clee1982

    clee1982 Senior member

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    I don't think it's too much anyway. I used to walk 3 miles a day on dress shoes (48 and 3rd to 23rd and Park round trip + smaller coffee trip).
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2013
  4. MoneyWellSpent

    MoneyWellSpent Senior member

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    I think your first question is simply semantics.

    As for the second question, I agree that there are probably not enough differences between the constructions to become a loyalist of one over the other simply because one may fall apart quicker. It is true that a possible weakness that exists in Goodyear-welted shoes (canvas gemming) doesn't exist in Blake/Rapid, and thus, a Blake/Rapid shoe is less likely to come apart during regular wear. However, the prevalence of gemming failure is very poorly documented and isn't prevalent enough to be recognized as a true weakness by the masses or by most shoe experts. It wouldn't have taken hold as the favored shoe construction technique for high-end shoes if it were that prone to failure. After all, it isn't like the people who can afford Goodyear-welted shoes or Hand-welted shoes can't also afford Blake/Rapid. Therefore, those who can afford the best and also demand quality, craftsmanship, and durability have proven to be accepting of Goodyear-welted shoes to fill that demand. It's comparable to "survival of the fittest." If there were a noticeable difference in the overall lifespan of a Goodyear-welted shoe vs. a Blake/Rapid shoe, the longer lived one would have become the standard. This difference doesn't really exist, and therefore Goodyear-welted shoes have become the gold-standard for reasons other than longevity.

    As has been established above, the likelihood of your uppers surviving long enough for the shoe construction to actually matter is relatively slim. I think the question may become more important when dealing with shell, since it has the capacity to last far longer. However, most shell doesn't live up to it's full potential in machine stitched shoes because it too is destroyed by needless replacement of the welts or midsoles, thus losing it's integrity and becoming worthless far earlier than the leather itself would go kaput.

    There is a difference in the fit and feel of a Goodyear-welted vs. Blake/Rapid shoe. Flexibility is a factor, especially when comparing a single soled Goodyear-welted to a Blake/Rapid. The flexibility of a Blake/Rapid shoe should be more akin to that of a double soled Goodyear-welted shoe, if that's important to you. Also, the cork filler underneath the insole is not present in a Blake/Rapid shoe. Some like the cork, others don't. Some consider it worthless, other enjoy what it has to offer. It comes down to personal preference I think.
     
  5. Munky

    Munky Senior member

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    Once again, Money, thank you very much for such a detailed response to my question. I appreciate it very much.
     
  6. chogall

    chogall Senior member

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    Probably trained by Italians. Newer generation Turn Right shoes hired Eric Cook to train their makers.
    Well, your insole would most likely crack before the 4th resole.
    1. Marketing 2. Serviceability
     
  7. Munky

    Munky Senior member

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    Thank you, too, Chogall.
     
  8. JermynStreet

    JermynStreet Senior member

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    Patrick this is a great essay but please allow me to offer an alternative explanation. I work in water pollution law--specifically MS4s (stormwater discharge in municipalities into the sewers). One of the biggest issues facing cities water-wise is what to do with storm water once it drains from the street into the sewer system, because of all of the harsh, toxic chemicals it puts into the wastewater system. How does this relate to your shoes? Well, I just happen to know that New York city has one of the highest amounts of chemicals in storm water discharges into the wastewater system. My intuition tells me that since you are walking a shit load in a city with pretty corrosive particles in the air and water, it makes sense that your leather uppers would deteriorate faster than a less congested, less dense city with better airflow and cleaner streets (i.e. no motor oil, trash, etc.). I would be interested to hear whether there is anyone on this thread who lives in Beijing or Shanghai (where there is also a ton of pollution) has had a similar experience. I can tell you I walk 5-6 miles a day in Washington DC on my Allen Edmonds (the quality of leather of which is not comparable to Church's, C&J, Alden) and have not had nearly the same problems with the upper cracking or soles wearing down as you seem to have had. Again, no science to back this up, but just my 2 ¢ ....
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2013
  9. clee1982

    clee1982 Senior member

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    Simpler reason, don't over care your shoe. I walk a ton in NYC and London mainly, no cracking what's so ever. And in any case, styleforum has always been disillusional about shoe as investment, it's like calling a car you can drive for 30 years an investment. We all know we buy nice shoes because we love them, otherwise 10 pair of John Lobbs is enough to buy over 150 pair of cheap shoes (100 dollars ones) which for sure will never need to be resoled if you change everyday...
     
  10. patrickBOOTH

    patrickBOOTH Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    It is funny you bring this up, DWFII said that it is probably sulfuric acid in the air and water. While I only wear "beater" shoes in the rain (or try to) you are probably correct as well. Also, I think it is too much constant messing with the leather with stuff. I wouldn't discount both theories.
     
  11. chogall

    chogall Senior member

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    So true. 150 pairs of cheap shoes together will for sure last longer than 10 pairs of John Lobbs combined.
     
  12. patrickBOOTH

    patrickBOOTH Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    But we all know you will climb the corporate ladder way faster with the Lobbs :rolleyes:
     
  13. Numbernine

    Numbernine Senior member

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    I don't believe anyone who owns 10 + pairs of high end shoes is primarily motived by cost effectiveness but it does work well as justification
     
  14. wurger

    wurger Senior member

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    [VIDEO][/VIDEO]

    +1 The bottom line is that; we just want nice, elegant and well-constructed shoes, once past the $300 to $400 mark, there are many reasons we find to justify going the extra mile (some times extra extra :happy:), all for the psychological want rather than the physical need.
     
  15. JermynStreet

    JermynStreet Senior member

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    True. Also, I am much happier knowing my money is going to workers in Port Washington, WI, Middleborough, MA, or (one day) DWFII in Oregon than across the Pacific. Just like with anything, over time, there will be more domestic shoe manufacturers here in the U.S. and prices will gradually fall.
     

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