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**The Official Shoe Care Thread: Tutorials, Photos, etc.**

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Mr. Moo, Feb 28, 2011.

  1. mixProtocol

    mixProtocol Senior member

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    I use Kiwi's cordovan-colored wax on black for just that reason.
     
  2. venividivicibj

    venividivicibj Senior member

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    Using saphir cordovan creme/wax on calfskin, okay? Extra nourishing? Same effect?
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2013
  3. Crat

    Crat Senior member

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    Less is more imo, especially for cordovan. I just use tiny a bit of wax every so often to remove scuffs. Cordovan itself is a very rich 'leather' that won't dry up quickly; it doesn't need much product. Most of the time a quick wipe with a damp cloth and little brushing suffices.
    As with everything though, the experts tend to differ of opinion.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2013
  4. Petepan

    Petepan Senior member

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    Cordovan creme has neatsfoot oil in it? Says so on my Saphir cordovan creme. I have read that neatsfoot oil will rot the threads in your shoes. If the experts can comment, it would be great.
     
  5. Munky

    Munky Senior member

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    I have been using Collonil 'Supreme Creme' Polish for sometime now as it doesn't contain turpentine. So far, so good. I ordered Collonil wax polish and their leather conditioner, thinking that they would also not contain turpentine. The both do contain it.

    The moral? Never extrapolate from a sample of one.
     
  6. MoneyWellSpent

    MoneyWellSpent Senior member

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    According to what I remember reading, that is one of the differences between natural neatsfoot oil and synthetic neatsfoot oil. Synthetic neatsfoot oil can cause damage to the threads (or so I've read). I have no personal expertise to guarantee that this is correct, however.
     
  7. venividivicibj

    venividivicibj Senior member

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    So.... Cordovan creme/wax is okay for use on normal calfskin? Does it do anything extra (extra moisturizing?) or doesn't have the same effect as normal calf creme/wax
     
  8. benhour

    benhour Senior member

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    Munky you are refering to 1909 leather cream or the 1909 lotion? for the wax i think it is quite posible to have turpentine but i dont think the cream or the lotion has turpentine in them!!btw i ll try to make a contanct and have some details to share!
    [​IMG]
    cordovan cream of saphir has twice pingment cosentration but no extra moisture for sure as far as i know!! for that reason i would recomend you to use a conditioner!![​IMG]
     
  9. Munky

    Munky Senior member

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    Hello Benhour! I haven't got them in front of me but one is the 1909 leather conditioner (in the tall green tube) The other is the wax polish. Both smell of turpentine, while the Supreme Creme doesn't. I will use them up, next summer, when I can use them outside! The Supreme Creme is excellent and I think I will use it for all of my shoes. Thanks for your help.
     
  10. Munky

    Munky Senior member

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    Is it a reasonable thing to use only neutral cream/wax on most of your shoes? Or should coloured products be used every so often? My reasons for asking are three-fold. First, it would simplify the cleaning routine. Second, I have some shoes with white stitching round the edge that I would prefer not to (accidentally) colour. Third, I could use only Collonil's turpentine free polish. I have mostly tan shoes.
     
  11. brokeassp

    brokeassp Senior member

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    What is gemming and does Alden use this process?

    Thanks on the edge dauber suggestion!
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2013
  12. MoneyWellSpent

    MoneyWellSpent Senior member

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    Yes, all Goodyear-welted shoes use gemming. They use a canvas "tape" that is stuck to the bottom of the insole which serves as the foundation for stitching the rest of the shoe to. The upper/lining and welt are directly stitched to it, and then the sole is stitched to the welt. So, if the canvas gemming comes loose from the insole, your shoe will have problems.

    The use of this canvas tape is the modern definition for gemming. Originally, gemming was a reinforcement to a thin leather hold-fast that was cut and turned up on the bottom of the insole to serve as the stitching point. The cut and turned leather was relatively thin, so they glued a sheet of canvas to the bottom of the insole to reinforce the leather. As time passed, however, this practice has nearly become extinct in favor of the canvas tape that is now used. The modern canvas tape has a rigid piece of fiber or plastic embedded in it that gives it the standing rib for stitching. JM Weston still uses the original method of gemming on some of their shoes, but I don't know of anyone else who does. See examples in photos below:

    Patent photo:
    [​IMG]


    And here are some photos of it in place:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    This is a photo of insoles using the original method for Goodyear-welted shoes using the cut and turned leather that was reinforced with canvas:

    [​IMG]

    If you are unfamiliar with how Goodyear-welted shoes are made, there are great videos to be found on Youtube.

    The use of gemming is one of the things that makes a hand-welted shoe quite superior to Goodyear-welted shoes. Hand-welted shoes use a carved hold-fast under a very thick leather insole to serve as the stitching point for the inseam rather than stuck-on canvas gemming on a much thinner leather insole.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2013
    1 person likes this.
  13. patrickBOOTH

    patrickBOOTH Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    And many times that insole isn't even leather^ :devil:
     
  14. MoneyWellSpent

    MoneyWellSpent Senior member

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    True. Fortunately it's the exception to the rule with "SF approved" brands. AE has increased the number of shoes that use a Poron covered fiberboard insole, but it's easy to tell with simple observation which ones are which.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2013
  15. Crat

    Crat Senior member

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    Kiwi on cordovan

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    1 person likes this.
  16. Crat

    Crat Senior member

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    MoneyWellSpent, I wouldn't say that all GY welted shoes have gemming. I know for a fact that Bontoni's hand welted GY construction isn't gemmed, they themselves called it goodyear by hand.
    It might just be a terminology issue though because unless I'm mistaken a shoe can be handwelted using the GY construction. That would make gemmed and non-gemmed shoes different types within the goodyear family.
    See pic below. I think St. Crispins also hand welt their GY constructed shoes, not sure though.



    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2013
  17. Winston S.

    Winston S. Senior member

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    I was under the impression that goodyear welted shoes had to be done with a Goodyear machine.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2013
  18. Crat

    Crat Senior member

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    Just some polish pics.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  19. Crat

    Crat Senior member

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    I might be wrong here but from what I know a shoe is GY welted when its upper, insole and the welt are stiched together and the outsole is stiched to the welt. Oldskool would be by hand and (modern) industry standard would be with gemming. The basic principle is the same on both though, as opposed to norvegese, blake or bentivegna constructions. Like I said though, I may be wrong and GY might only refer to gemmed, machine made shoes.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2013
  20. benhour

    benhour Senior member

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    Crat beautiful shoes and nice shine at the toe are!!![​IMG]

    btw the shoe trees are lasted or just plain shoe trees? because they are too pointy at the top of the heel causing ecxesive stretch at the top line leading to cracking!(i had the same isue once with a pair)

    i think the leather at the vamp area and at the topline looks a little bit dry!!

    some photos of G.Y (i think a have posted a video too from Barker shoes)
    [​IMG]
    and one Blake-Rapid
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2013

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