I ended up taking that advice, thank benhour Also, thank you everyone. After finding this site 2 weeks ago, I've learned much about the craft of shoe shine and even patina, and it all started after finding a jar of Meltonian polish in the closet. Maybe not directly, but many of you have posted valuable information in the past that has created a database of knowledge for the inquiring mind. I finished my first pair today, and am beyond pleased as a first run, and learned it all right here. So thanks again and I owe you all a beer. Haha, cheers.