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cedarlake23

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Hi all,

I recently switched to Saphir products for both my suede and smooth leather shoes. The suede routine is great, but my smooth leather shoes (Red Wing classic mocs, Paraboot Chambords, Alden loafers, etc.) are a disaster.

I do what I thought was the basic routine: Saphir renovateur (wiping with a damp cloth first to remove dirt and let dry, then applied renovateur with a 100% cotton cloth, let dry, and buffed with a horsehair brush), then Saphir creme 1925 (applied with a 100% cotton cloth, let dry, buffed with a horsehair brush). However, the products didn't seem to entirely absorb in the leather. This is fine when it's dry, but when it rains the shoes get what look like water marks. But upon closer inspection, I think it's the Saphir products. The attached photo shows a pair after a light rain and when I rub the shoes, residue from what I assume is the product rubs off (see little flecks on my fingers).

Does anyone have ideas of what I'm doing wrong? I contacted Saphir via their website and no one replied, and Kirby Allison (the site I where bought the products) just replies with an AI bot that doesn't answer the question. Feeling like I'm out of options at this point. Thanks in advance!

IMG_4554.JPG
 

actionjbone

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Hi all,

I recently switched to Saphir products for both my suede and smooth leather shoes. The suede routine is great, but my smooth leather shoes (Red Wing classic mocs, Paraboot Chambords, Alden loafers, etc.) are a disaster.

I do what I thought was the basic routine: Saphir renovateur (wiping with a damp cloth first to remove dirt and let dry, then applied renovateur with a 100% cotton cloth, let dry, and buffed with a horsehair brush), then Saphir creme 1925 (applied with a 100% cotton cloth, let dry, buffed with a horsehair brush). However, the products didn't seem to entirely absorb in the leather. This is fine when it's dry, but when it rains the shoes get what look like water marks. But upon closer inspection, I think it's the Saphir products. The attached photo shows a pair after a light rain and when I rub the shoes, residue from what I assume is the product rubs off (see little flecks on my fingers).

Does anyone have ideas of what I'm doing wrong? I contacted Saphir via their website and no one replied, and Kirby Allison (the site I where bought the products) just replies with an AI bot that doesn't answer the question. Feeling like I'm out of options at this point. Thanks in advance!

View attachment 2316559
Could be bloom rising to the surface. When the leather gets wet, wax and oil can rise up out of the pores and seams, and then form that sort of waxy powder. I've seen that happen on other shoes.

Did you scrub off all the old product before you applied Renovateur? If not, a couple rounds of saddle soap should help you get off all the old, loose wax. Then, you can try the new products again.
 

cedarlake23

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Could be bloom rising to the surface. When the leather gets wet, wax and oil can rise up out of the pores and seams, and then form that sort of waxy powder. I've seen that happen on other shoes.

Did you scrub off all the old product before you applied Renovateur? If not, a couple rounds of saddle soap should help you get off all the old, loose wax. Then, you can try the new products again.
This is super helpful, thanks! The only thing I did to the shoes prior to applying the renovateur was a light rub with a damp cloth (and let dry). But I can try a couple rounds of scrubbing with saddle soap before my above-mentioned routine. Do you think I should change anything to that otherwise? I thought the renovateur and the creme 1925 would make a good nourishment/protection combo, so hopefully I don't need to do anything else.
 

actionjbone

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This is super helpful, thanks! The only thing I did to the shoes prior to applying the renovateur was a light rub with a damp cloth (and let dry). But I can try a couple rounds of scrubbing with saddle soap before my above-mentioned routine. Do you think I should change anything to that otherwise? I thought the renovateur and the creme 1925 would make a good nourishment/protection combo, so hopefully I don't need to do anything else.
Once the bloom and the old wax are all scrubbed off, you shouldn't need to do anything other than buff thoroughly then apply the new products.

Just be careful not to apply too much product, use it sparingly. Hopefully that'll give you good results.

Good luck!
 

cedarlake23

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Once the bloom and the old wax are all scrubbed off, you shouldn't need to do anything other than buff thoroughly then apply the new products.

Just be careful not to apply too much product, use it sparingly. Hopefully that'll give you good results.

Good luck!
Thank you! I've read to only apply a little, which makes sense given the small container size. Is there anything to look out for that implies too little or too much have been used?
 

actionjbone

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Thank you! I've read to only apply a little, which makes sense given the small container size. Is there anything to look out for that implies too little or too much have been used?
If you put any on, it's hard to put on too little. A very small amount does a lot. Though if any spots look duller than the others, it could mean you missed a spot.

If you put on too much, it could seem a little greasy because it doesn't all get absorbed. Or, you could get more bloom later.
 

unknown_user

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This is super helpful, thanks! The only thing I did to the shoes prior to applying the renovateur was a light rub with a damp cloth (and let dry). But I can try a couple rounds of scrubbing with saddle soap before my above-mentioned routine. Do you think I should change anything to that otherwise? I thought the renovateur and the creme 1925 would make a good nourishment/protection combo, so hopefully I don't need to do anything else.
IMHO think you're applying product unnecessarily. The whole point of applying something like Renovateur is to condition the leather when it is dry or damaged. Oily leathers like some of the Red Wing leathers or Horween Chromexcel need no conditioner at first and very little conditioner down the line because they're infused with oils and waxes after tanning.
By all means apply Renovateur or one of the many other conditioners if the leather is very dry but you really don't need to apply it most of the time. The Saphir cream you're applying next already has some conditioning agents anyway though the primary purpose of cream is to apply colour to scuffs or marks.
If it was me, I'd do one round of saddle soap and if the leather is feeling relatively supple and not showing a bloom, leave it at that. Otherwise, if there's some marks you want to cover up add a little cream.
Finally I'll add that Renovateur is not the best conditioner for regular use, even for non oily leather. I think there are better options from both Saphir and many other suppliers and it is best regarded as an intensive conditioner for special occasions or damaged leather and it can strip colour from your footwear if not used cautiously.
 

NORE

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I am not a fan of closed channel stitching and this perfectly illustrates why. First, I don’t agree that these need to be resoled. Toe taps will do the trick. The question is value. If these are treasured pieces, I would send them to someone like Aram and have his install integrated taps. Otherwise, a rubber nail/glue on should do the trick.
Whoa, wait! Not a fan of closed channel stitching? Bro.

I agree with you that the missing chunk alone doesn't immediately warrant a resole. A competent cobbler and get him back on the road until it is time for a full resole.
 

cedarlake23

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IMHO think you're applying product unnecessarily. The whole point of applying something like Renovateur is to condition the leather when it is dry or damaged. Oily leathers like some of the Red Wing leathers or Horween Chromexcel need no conditioner at first and very little conditioner down the line because they're infused with oils and waxes after tanning.
By all means apply Renovateur or one of the many other conditioners if the leather is very dry but you really don't need to apply it most of the time. The Saphir cream you're applying next already has some conditioning agents anyway though the primary purpose of cream is to apply colour to scuffs or marks.
If it was me, I'd do one round of saddle soap and if the leather is feeling relatively supple and not showing a bloom, leave it at that. Otherwise, if there's some marks you want to cover up add a little cream.
Finally I'll add that Renovateur is not the best conditioner for regular use, even for non oily leather. I think there are better options from both Saphir and many other suppliers and it is best regarded as an intensive conditioner for special occasions or damaged leather and it can strip colour from your footwear if not used cautiously.
The plot thickens! Could you elaborate on the Renovateur? I only do a full clean of my shoes a couple times a year and have had then all for a while, so I thought the Renovateur was the good choice, especially since I've read elsewhere to apply it monthly.

Two or so hours ago I used the saddle soap on one pair of shoes to test. I applied a little bit using a wet dauber brush and immediately wiped off with a cloth (two times in total). Still some marks, but way better than the un-treated shoe. It does still look rough, so I'm going to sparingly apply Reno/Creme 1925 tomorrow and see how it turns out. I'll keep everyone posted. In the meantime, I'd appreciate hearing any further opinions. Thanks again!
 

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unknown_user

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Renovateur is an intensive conditioner that really should only be applied to dry and damaged leather. It is not just old polish but it can also strip colour or burnishing off shoes though this is more likely to happen with dressier leathers. That you only apply it a couple of times a year surprises me given that your shoes seem to have excess product but it does depend in what conditions and how much they are used. It looks like you are now re-applying the excess oils that your saddle soap removed which seems counterproductive. If these were my shoes I'd give them a good brushing which would redistribute the oils and leave them. At most I'd apply the 1925 creme (which contains conditioning agents as well as colour) to help any rough patches or scuffs.
It might be that the leather is damaged hence it looking rough but it might also be that this is how the leather is now and applying additional conditioner is not doing anything other than giving you unpleasant white marks on your boots.
Something like Bick 4 is a better conditioner for frequent use (and significantly cheaper) though as mentioned, many oily leathers require no conditioning until they are well used. Saphir also do an oily leather cream which might be a better choice if you want to remain with premium products. I'll add that I've used a very large range of conditioners (at least a dozen) on a variety of footwear and how well they work does very much depend on the leather but something like Bick4 is a good, cheap, effective, frequent use conditioner that has worked well on pretty much every smooth leather I've used it on including Red Wing oily leather.
 
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cedarlake23

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Renovateur is an intensive conditioner that really should only be applied to dry and damaged leather. It is not just old polish but it can also strip colour or burnishing off shoes though this is more likely to happen with dressier leathers. That you only apply it a couple of times a year surprises me given that your shoes seem to have excess product but it does depend in what conditions and how much they are used. It looks like you are now re-applying the excess oils that your saddle soap removed which seems counterproductive. If these were my shoes I'd give them a good brushing which would redistribute the oils and leave them. At most I'd apply the 1925 creme (which contains conditioning agents as well as colour) to help any rough patches or scuffs.
It might be that the leather is damaged hence it looking rough but it might also be that this is how the leather is now and applying additional conditioner is not doing anything other than giving you unpleasant white marks on your boots.
Something like Bick 4 is a better conditioner for frequent use (and significantly cheaper) though as mentioned, many oily leathers require no conditioning until they are well used. Saphir also do an oily leather cream which might be a better choice if you want to remain with premium products. I'll add that I've used a very large range of conditioners (at least a dozen) on a variety of footwear and how well they work does very much depend on the leather but something like Bick4 is a good, cheap, effective, frequent use conditioner that has worked well on pretty much every smooth leather I've used it on including Red Wing oily leather.
This is super helpful, I really appreciate it! I'll apply just a touch of the 1925 creme to this tomorrow and post an updated photo. I had thought that since the saddle soap strips everything off, that I should apply Reno to get a little moisture back. But I'll skip that and just use the 1925 creme.
 

unknown_user

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This is super helpful, I really appreciate it! I'll apply just a touch of the 1925 creme to this tomorrow and post an updated photo. I had thought that since the saddle soap strips everything off, that I should apply Reno to get a little moisture back. But I'll skip that and just use the 1925 creme.
If the shoes had been in a normal state conditioning would probably have made sense as saddle soap does remove oils from leather. However, in this case as it looked like you had an excess of oils and conditioners in the first place the saddle soap was helping to get rid of the excess rather than drying the leather out. Or at least that's how it looks. Anyway, see how you get on with the cream and don't discount giving the shoes a good brushing first. It's surprising how much better your shoes can look after just brushing them with a horsehair brush or just buffing them with a dry cloth. This is especially true of oily leathers that self heal to a certain extent when you distribute the oils around the shoe.
 

cedarlake23

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@unknown_user looks like you were right! I used saddle soap (removed super quickly), let dry overnight, then brushed a bunch. That looked ok, but I then applied the smallest amount of crème 1925 with my fingers. Let that set in and brushed again. It looks good now. To verify results, I flicked some water on the shoes and no bloom appeared.

So, to anyone reading, only apply a tiny amount of saphir product! Too much makes your shoes look bad. It’s expensive stuff, so it’s a costly mistake, too.

Thanks again!
 

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