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The Official RRL Thread

Discussion in 'Streetwear and Denim' started by whodini, May 21, 2009.

  1. clee1982

    clee1982 Senior member

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    Again I don't know how textile industry is, but for some machinery/assembly kind of manufacture, China are the ones with the latest gizmo from Germany/Japan..
     
  2. clee1982

    clee1982 Senior member

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    And trust me they will all be ISO9XXX certified. That's how it used to work in Taiwan too (where I am from). Those certification really don't mean crap, it's ticking box (10~15 years ago anyway, not sure now)... oh and even though they might implement the latest manufacture technique, they might not care about proper procedure as much as west (at least safety procedure goes). It's a lax from both management as well and sometimes the worker themselves, as surprisingly as it sounds, some just couldn't be bothered.

    As I was saying in the end of the day, QC comes from the buyer. If I order some component for building aircraft, you can be damned sure I would check quality, Now clothe is more like reputation is on the line rather than life, and from what I have seen from Polo and black label stuff wise, the made in china are proper, so far.
     
  3. burningbright

    burningbright Senior member

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    Great post clee, thanks for the response.

    I guess I should have mentioned in my original post that my concerns with the Made in China aspect of things were also safety and environmentally related too. Here's one article I read last year that really opened my eyes to what may be going on in China on a larger scale than from what's just in the article:

    http://articles.cnn.com/2010-04-26/...ution_1_denim-pearl-river-factory?_s=PM:WORLD

    Again, not looking to judge anyone here personally, I just want to make sure I'm getting a nicely made product that isn't at the expense of anybody else's well-being.

    Not claiming to be a know-it-all either, I just want to be better informed.
     
  4. srgprod

    srgprod Senior member

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    Sounds like you did really well. There's going to be a lot more RRL available at the outlets in late Sept. and October once the mainline sales are over and they sweep all the remaining inventory to the outlet shop network.
     
  5. whodini

    whodini Conan OOOOOOO"BRIEN!

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    I'm curious about where you get your information or how you've arrived to your conclusions on the Chinese garment industry. I could be wrong but from reading your posts I get the sense that you're under the belief that "China=shoddily made goods in a sweatshop for rock-bottom prices, so why would RRL support this," right? It's an argument I see often from people who don't know the industry or have read anything about the industry aside from news reports and general opinion from about 15 years ago when the Nike kid sweatshop fiasco exploded. And people seem pretty unshakable about their beliefs on China even though they usually can't quote sources or give specific examples. There is no shortage of books on the subject if you're sincerely interested in dispelling the traditional notions on the garment industry.

    But back to RRL, and to segue, you should be GLAD they're making things in China:
    -There are many other labels that go to even poorer countries that are hell-bent on competing with China, where conditions are as bad as you can imagine. China has actually been losing business because their outsourced work is being further outsourced.
    -The outsourcing of manufacturing in the US over the past 30-40 years makes it hard, if not impossible, for domestic factories to compete with foreign factories not only at price margins but also in skill set, output, etc. The simple fact is that there are a lot less factories and skilled workers in the US today than there were during the hey-day.
    -Similarly, RRL is well known for its limited productions. Again, China makes more sense than the US in this respect not only financially but also in terms of technical aspects like lead times.
    -RRL is a sort of "big" little brand. If they already had established factories capable of competent work and QA, I wouldn't necessarily understand the headaches and monetary risks involved with creating a factory from the ground up or finding a capable one domestically. It's a lot easier said than done.
    -To reinforce the point that others have made, there are many sweatshops in the US. If you want to be a truly educated consumer, you should care about the factory more than geography. If you want to be a truly educated and pro-American consumer, you should care about both.
    -The idea that a US worker (who said he's even a legal US citizen?) would by default take more pride, if any, in his job than another worker in another country is laughable. Does the drive thru guy at McDonalds in Miami give more of a shit than his Canadian or South African counterparts because it's an American brand?

    It's not just the imagination of people on here the RRL puts out a well-made product that competes with, if not blows away, the collections from brands fabricated in first-world countries.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2011
  6. clee1982

    clee1982 Senior member

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    The world is putting China under microscope for whatever it does now, fairly or not fairly. Taiwan/South Korea both went through the same thing, Taiwan used to burn copper electric wire, and whatever it product just goes to the air. China, as a developing country probably pays more attention than Taiwan/South Korea at equivalent stage back then (from government regulation stand point of view, no idea about enforcement). The reason being,

    1). more scrutiny, the world is not what it used to be, environment concern is a lot higher
    2). they're too big to ignore, i.e. the world could lived with some small Asia country not doing "X", while it's impossible to live with China not doing "X" (X can be anything from emission control to some environmental protection treaty, etc.)
    3). even China themselves realize how damaging it is, and because of the change in terms scale have happened, they were forced to recognized the issue. Beijing is subject to dust storm more often, drought/flood are happening more often in certain area. It becomes hard to ignore when it's that obvious. They do realize it's not something they can forget about it and try to fix it 20 years later.

    Now none of these are "excuse" per se as in why someone shouldn't hold China to certain standard, but the reality is all the Asian country have gone from poor to rich through the same route. You can say the same about America, except that happened 150 years ago.

    In terms of quality and safety
    English use to laugh at Germans, European use to laugh at American, American used to laugh at Japan, to me it just sounds like same story happening again and again. If you go back to 50 years ago, the only thing Taiwan produce and export in mess are banana... then it become crappy umbrella, cheap toy, textile, refrigerator, computers to what it is now.

    I know I am way off topic, so if you're interested PM me..., I am not expert in the region by any mean (I spend most of my post teenage year in US, and moved to UK recently), just been looking them for a long time, and from a different lens.

    ok, let's go back to discuss some more RRL jeans, someone got slim fit raw or one wash in 28x30/32 for cheap :nodding:?
     
  7. burningbright

    burningbright Senior member

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    Sorry, heading out to a movie with the little lady, but I'll respond when I get back before I get lumped into the "US products rock hard core and if you buy from anywhere else you're scum" group. Thanks for your thoughts though; I do agree with a lot of what you're saying and think we're probably on the same wave length when it gets right down to it.

    Be back in a few hours.
     
  8. kmdsimpson

    kmdsimpson Senior member

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    I actually thought from your initial post that you were only asking about quality, so sorry about posting irrelevant information; and thanks for saying it was nice, anyway.

    So without being an expert on the situation, and also with much less knowledge of the facts than others here have, I personally look at this in 3 categories:

    1. I think it's a myth that quality of made in China goods is necessarily lower than in the US (or in Europe, for that matter). The fact is, there are just far fewer skilled workers in the US in the textile industry than in China. I think on the very high end, where you are talking about true artisans, it might be relevant to say that X country is known for developing skilled specialists; for instance, look at UK hand made shoes. Those items are such low volume, so specialized, and so expensive, that they are not really relevant to this discussion. If you are talking about similar items made in China vs. the US, I am confident in saying that I've had many examples of made in US clothing that are of shoddy quality as compared to China (anyone remember the Mauro/Crate jeans fiasco?).

    2. I think a lot of it depends on the buyer (meaning RRL - the buyer to the factory) and their quality control methods, more than it does the factories themselves. I have been very satisfied with RRL quality, which I assume is related to their quality control methods.

    3. As far as work conditions, environmental issues, etc.. I am hopeful that the "too big to hide" effect applies here. China and its factories have undergone so much scrutiny that it's hard to imagine a large manufacturer using factories that are not up to Western standards. By that, I don't mean that a Chinese textile worker makes $25 per hour, like in the US, but more that they are treated fairly compared to their own living standards and cost of living.

    The fact is, the cow has left the barn. This stuff is not economical to produce in the US in volume. The only way forward is to ensure that humane standards are employed in the producing factories, or else not to buy this type of clothing at all. That does not mean it's automatically humane, but it does create powerful incentives for vigilant oversight.
     
  9. zippyh

    zippyh Senior member

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    Please don't. The only thing more tedious than the "made in China" political discussions are the repeated questions about how much does this pair or that stretch in the waist.
     
  10. osadolor619

    osadolor619 Senior member

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    ............................................
     
  11. NAMOR

    NAMOR Senior member

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  12. clee1982

    clee1982 Senior member

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    I really think the woman ones have lower front rise (not that other measurement would work), but check this part out

    front rise: 8.25".

    I would imagine it's cut to show girls' hips...
     
  13. Saturdays

    Saturdays Senior member

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    I would call them. They are usually pretty helpful and will answer. 2nd floor usually has a whole section whenever I visit, but haven't been there in a while.
     
  14. whodini

    whodini Conan OOOOOOO"BRIEN!

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  15. NAMOR

    NAMOR Senior member

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    hell yes. if these were a tagged 34, i would. i mean, shit, im already going to be wearing red jeans.
     

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