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The Official MMA thread

Discussion in 'Entertainment, Culture, and Sports' started by Matt, May 30, 2008.

  1. onion

    onion Senior member

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    So I was watching the Steven Seagal trains Anderson Silva video, and saw where Seagal did a submission move on Silva's nose that looked pretty damn effective. It was pretty much a rear naked, except instead of putting your forearm on their throat you pull back on their nose.

    Just curious, has anyone ever seen this used in any mma fight?
     
  2. toothsomesound

    toothsomesound Senior member

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  3. Barnabus

    Barnabus Senior member

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    It also might look a lot worse and more intentional in slow motion. I think a lot of times Jake was trying to get some sort of clinch game going so he could try to get it to the mat. I think he was waving his hands at GSP's head in a vain and half-assed attempt to grab it.

    One of the first things they teach you about clinching is not to zombie arm it as its a good way to great dropped, Since jake is a acclaimed grappler he has no reason to be reaching like that if hes trying to clinch up. [​IMG]

    I go on a mma board every once and a while and even the respected and knowledgeable coaches who post on there largely say those vids and gifs and pictures are far too incriminating. Especially the down turned thumb punch. [​IMG]
     
  4. Barnabus

    Barnabus Senior member

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    So I was watching the Steven Seagal trains Anderson Silva video, and saw where Seagal did a submission move on Silva's nose that looked pretty damn effective. It was pretty much a rear naked, except instead of putting your forearm on their throat you pull back on their nose.

    Just curious, has anyone ever seen this used in any mma fight?

    kind of like this
    [​IMG]

    I don't think i've seen any tap form it in mma.Kind of like the can opener in that it hurts but doesnt make people quit that often.
     
  5. Lendo

    Lendo Senior member

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    So I was watching the Steven Seagal trains Anderson Silva video, and saw where Seagal did a submission move on Silva's nose that looked pretty damn effective. It was pretty much a rear naked, except instead of putting your forearm on their throat you pull back on their nose.

    Just curious, has anyone ever seen this used in any mma fight?


    Not in mma, but i've seen it done in bjj competitions. That, or a face crack when you can't get the rnc. Hurts like hell, but not sure how effective it'd be in a mma setting.
     
  6. toothsomesound

    toothsomesound Senior member

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    Holy fuck, Lesnar's diverticulitis has flared up, he's out of UFC 131 and now it's CARWIN VS JDS! [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] edit: sorry Lesnar, hope you get better but we knew JDS was gonna tool you and this fight rocks!
     
  7. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member Admin Moderator

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    Not in mma, but i've seen it done in bjj competitions. That, or a face crack when you can't get the rnc. Hurts like hell, but not sure how effective it'd be in a mma setting.

    It works in MMA too. Actually, I think that the last incarnation was in the last Ultimate Fighter finale, done in a guillotine choke by that guy from Spokane against that English guy. He didn't have the neck, just had the jaw. Specialists can break your jaw just from the force of their squeeze, no joke. It happens at the Abudabi tournaments regularly too. Think about it, these guys practice squeezing with their arms all day. And the average MMA fighter does not have anywhere close to the amount of experience in fighting off submissions that pure BJJ and submission wrestlers have.

    I'm not even a particularly good BJJ guy, and I've tapped guys out just by squeezing on the jaw. It's definitely a strength move. Another effective move that is legal in MMA, but not in BJJ or most submission grappling tournaments, is the neck crank, from either a guillotine or RNC position. Actually, I demonstrated how fast the guillotine version is on an SF member when j and I were in SF working on the new system. Once you've forced the neck into position (or tricked the guy into the position), the tap comes nearly immediately.
     
  8. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member Admin Moderator

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    Holy fuck, Lesnar's diverticulitis has flared up, he's out of UFC 131 and now it's CARWIN VS JDS!

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    edit: sorry Lesnar, hope you get better but we knew JDS was gonna tool you and this fight rocks!


    I'm going to give this to JDS if he can keep it on the feet and/or get up fast. Shane Carwin is a monster, but as we saw in his last fight, he is not particularly disciplined, and doesn't have a gas tank. JDS is a much better striker than anyone Carwin has fought before, much more of a disciplined striker (he is not going to go a charging forward a la Gabriel Gonzaga, and one with huge power in his hands to boot. Shane's chance is going to come in round 1, either by way of enormous haymaker (i.e. puncher's chance) or if he manages to GnP JDS to a TKO, which seems unlikely.

    Of course, if Greg Jackson has somehow figured out how to make Shane Carwin into a smart fighter, as well as a powerful one, then all bets are off.
     
  9. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member Admin Moderator

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    One of the first things they teach you about clinching is not to zombie arm it as its a good way to great dropped, Since jake is a acclaimed grappler he has no reason to be reaching like that if hes trying to clinch up. [​IMG]

    I go on a mma board every once and a while and even the respected and knowledgeable coaches who post on there largely say those vids and gifs and pictures are far too incriminating. Especially the down turned thumb punch. [​IMG]


    And yet, you see Royce Gracie do pretty much exactly that all of the time. Just because you are a good grappler doesn't mean that you don't get clubbed. He also leaves himself open toe the arm drag, but seriously, would Jake Shields be afraid of GSP armdragging him? Jake has a pretty decent single leg, apparently, but I think that he was getting pretty frustrated, which often leads to mistakes.
     
  10. reezy

    reezy Senior member

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    Dam Brock is out....I'm a big fan but a realistic fan of his. He was probably going to knocked out by Dos Santos in the 2nd round. I hope he gets back to form...really want to see what he can do when he gets all of the skills together.

    Anyhow..if Jackson is behind Carwin's corner and he taught him how to fight smart...I have Carwin by the end of 2nd.
     
  11. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member Admin Moderator

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    Dam Brock is out....I'm a big fan but a realistic fan of his. He was probably going to knocked out by Dos Santos in the 2nd round. I hope he gets back to form...really want to see what he can do when he gets all of the skills together.

    Anyhow..if Jackson is behind Carwin's corner and he taught him how to fight smart...I have Carwin by the end of 2nd.


    Carwin has been with Greg Jackson for a while. Some fighters are just smarter and also better at strategy (GSP, Rashad Evans, Jon Jones), while others fight instinctively no matter what (Leonard Garcia, a notable Jackson camp fighter who just goes and throws bombs).

    Brock's problem is a really soft chin. He really can't seem to get punched in the face, and wilts when he does, which is a huge issue. It's pretty understandable when it's Shane Carwin or Cain Velasquez beating your ass, but he was visibly rocked by Frank Mir on one of very few exchanges in their second fight. If he can get that under control, he would be a much better fighter. If he really wants to improve, he needs to bring in heavyweight boxers, and get used to getting smashed in the face.
     
  12. reezy

    reezy Senior member

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    Carwin has been with Greg Jackson for a while. Some fighters are just smarter and also better at strategy (GSP, Rashad Evans, Jon Jones), while others fight instinctively no matter what (Leonard Garcia, a notable Jackson camp fighter who just goes and throws bombs). Brock's problem is a really soft chin. He really can't seem to get punched in the face, and wilts when he does, which is a huge issue. It's pretty understandable when it's Shane Carwin or Cain Velasquez beating your ass, but he was visibly rocked by Frank Mir on one of very few exchanges in their second fight. If he can get that under control, he would be a much better fighter. If he really wants to improve, he needs to bring in heavyweight boxers, and get used to getting smashed in the face.
    Yeah I agree with you some are instinctive fighters. Garcia is a lost cause and I think he knows that so he just goes out and tries to give the "fight of the night" bonus by hailing bombs at willing strikers. Carwin, on the other hand, still has potential and I think he will learn from his fight from Lesnar. In the end, we won't know til the fight happens. JDS seems to have the same problem as Carwin when he faced Nelson although he didn't gas as much as Carwin. It's going to be interesting. I won't be surprised if JDS does a front kick like Machida and Silva for the finish lol [​IMG] Segal. Brock keeps his chin up when hes striking which won't surprise me since he's still very raw as a MMA fighter. For his status, he doesn't have as much experience as anyone in the UFC, which leads to wilting and looking embarrassed when he is being striked at. I really hope he can come back from his health problems 100%. Hate to see him go out like that. He should really consider going to other camps to hone his skills instead of being in isolation all the time. Like you said, striking should be high priority and bringing in Freddie Roach would be feasible to tune his boxing.
     
  13. Barnabus

    Barnabus Senior member

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    And yet, you see Royce Gracie do pretty much exactly that all of the time. Just because you are a good grappler doesn't mean that you don't get clubbed. He also leaves himself open toe the arm drag, but seriously, would Jake Shields be afraid of GSP armdragging him? Jake has a pretty decent single leg, apparently, but I think that he was getting pretty frustrated, which often leads to mistakes.

    The difference with Royce was he is was a pure bjj guy, Bjj is noted for not having the best stand up grappling.Jake however considers what he does as american bjj which is a hybrid of bjj and wrestling the latter which does have good clinch fighting so his stand up wrestling shouldn't be anywhere as sloppy as royces.

    Further jakes not a striking maestro granted but he has been doing it long enough to where he shouldnt be constantly stabbing people in the eye[​IMG]
     
  14. Mauro

    Mauro Senior member Affiliate Vendor

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    robert- Basically you are right, since the UFC is so one sided and really has a monopoly on MMA. Plus MMA isn't that big is the U.S.
    Think about how many top tier fighters their are and could they fight every month? Then you get into payroll issues and fighter longevity.

    The more you fight the shorter your career. Let's take a UFC A fighter. Someone like A.Silva or GSP they might fight two times a year but are in the fight scene for 12 years + active.
    Take your average Muay thai champion for either stadium in Thailand their professional career is less than 1/2 of a UFC champion and have hundreds of fights.

    As far as the eye poke it happens but it can be thrown on purpose as well.

    Royce is not good example for anything anymore , like me he is out dated. Royce isn't a top tier fighter.

    Finally for the cross face. You DONT tap to that. Lendo knows because he trains at my gym and that is a big fat no-no. I guess if I was grappling with Brock who is hulking compared to me , sure because he would squeeze my head of my shoulders. However someone in your own weight class, no way. I think the right word would be "pussy".
     
  15. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member Admin Moderator

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    Sometimes, you just tap to a crossface because that guy is so strong. I roll will a brown belt who is 225 lbs (as opposed to my 170 and bits, and my fighting weight is 145 or 155). The guy is really good, has great squeeze, and regular wins tournaments in the brown belt division, and also regularly taps out pretty experienced black belts (he will be moving to San Diego to train with Saulo Ribiero on a permanent basis this fall.) He also has a tremendous "squeeze", and has dislocated guy's jaws before. I'm not going to get my jaw dislocated in practice because I want to be a tough guy. And that is one thing I'm known for, if nothing else - having a lot of tolerance for pain. However, no-one has tolerance for a dislocated jaw. That is a fight ender.

    Sure, tapping because of pain is pussy, but there's nothing smart or cool about not tapping when joints are going to get busted. Me, I like my food, and do not have any inclination to eat through a straw. And it's also disrespectful to make a training partner, or even a competitor, have to choose between relinquishing a submission, or seriously injuring you.

    And like I said, this type of submission happens at the highest BJJ levels on a regular basis. Some guys have that much squeeze.
     
  16. Mauro

    Mauro Senior member Affiliate Vendor

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    ^^lol. i hear you.
     
  17. Ambulance Chaser

    Ambulance Chaser Senior member

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    I had written off UFC 130 as a waste of time when the Edgar-Maynard fight was scratched. After watching Countdown to UFC 130 last night, I'm changing my mind. I'm interested in quite a few of the main card fights. Except for the main event. I think Hamill is a gatekeeper, and I don't see a motivated Rampage having much problem beating him.
     
  18. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member Admin Moderator

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    I had written off UFC 130 as a waste of time when the Edgar-Maynard fight was scratched. After watching Countdown to UFC 130 last night, I'm changing my mind. I'm interested in quite a few of the main card fights. Except for the main event. I think Hamill is a gatekeeper, and I don't see a motivated Rampage having much problem beating him.

    Yeah, the main event seems like the weakest draw. I'm on the fence about buying this one. On one hand, I would love to see Roy Nelson KTFO Frank Mir, and either way, that fight should be fun. On the other hand, the main event is sort of weak. I mean, Hamill has a chin, but his stand up is "unconventional", which is usually an MMA euphemism for piss poor, and because of this, his shot is really telegraphed. And none of the other fights are particularly compelling to me. I dunno. Someone convince me, either way.
     
  19. reezy

    reezy Senior member

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    I;m looking forward to Thiago Alves vs Rick Story and Stefan Struve. Those guys are always pretty exciting. Looking forward to Jorge Santiago's return as well. A lot of stand up in this card, which is never a bad thing.

    This interview between Rampage and Ariel was hilarious. Haha.
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  20. Ambulance Chaser

    Ambulance Chaser Senior member

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    Yeah, the main event seems like the weakest draw. I'm on the fence about buying this one. On one hand, I would love to see Roy Nelson KTFO Frank Mir, and either way, that fight should be fun. On the other hand, the main event is sort of weak. I mean, Hamill has a chin, but his stand up is "unconventional", which is usually an MMA euphemism for piss poor, and because of this, his shot is really telegraphed. And none of the other fights are particularly compelling to me. I dunno. Someone convince me, either way.
    I would not buy UFC 130. I probably would not buy any UFC PPV without a title fight for that matter, unless the main event was a #1 contender fight featuring a fighter I really liked. I think UFC 130 is worth the $5 cover at my local bar, however.
     

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