The Official-ish DC Thread

[CollingsD2H]

I have interest in a dive watch, but have never bought one. I am most interested in a vintage IWC Porsche Design Ocean 2000. It's got the domed sapphire crystal I so crave, and of all the boring dial variants, I like this one with the script International Watch Co. Schaffassen. 42mm may be too big for my wrist, though for a dive watch of its depth resistance, it's relatively thin.

My second choice is a Seamaster b/c there are a few versions under 40mm, even if barely. As I have said, I really like the coaxial movement. It's a nice modern advancement to an anachronistic product.

When is a 42mm considered too large? I have 7.25" wrist size and think that's narrow but I'm now wearing a 43mm watch.

I would second your second choice. If you're want accuracy, get the Seamaster. They have different colors and are readily available. And don't pay retail...but you probably know that already.

 

[scurvyfreedman]

When is a 42mm considered too large? I have 7.25" wrist size and think that's narrow but I'm now wearing a 43mm watch.

I would second your second choice. If you're want accuracy, get the Seamaster. They have different colors and are readily available. And don't pay retail...but you probably know that already.

I like this version in the Orioles' colors. 38mm

 

[mak1277]

You hit the nail on the head with Rolex watches. I heard from a youtube video a saying that really struck me, "Omega makes watches; Rolex sells watches." The head of Rolex was a marketing "genius" whereas the Omega guys were just cranking out watches. The price of Rolex watches reflect a perceived value. Omega makes nice watches and I hope they keep their prices at rational levels and not raise them like Rolex watches. Don't get me wrong, if someone offered to give me a free Rolex watch I would not hesitate and take it. But I would not pay full price for it or even dare plan on getting one. The prices are just way too high for me while they fail to deliver on the hardware.

This is sort of nonsense, to be honest. I own both Rolex and Omega. Omega makes very nice watches (the co-ax movement is in theory quite excellent, and we'll see how it ages). When I bought my Omega I compared it head to head with a Rolex Oyster Perpetual and bought the Omega.

Then I bought a Submariner, and I can say without question it's nicer than my Omega. And it keeps FAR better time than my Omega with Co-ax movement.

Anyone who says that Rolex doesn't make fantastic watches just has an axe to grind.

Or, you could just ask Roger Smith, who wears a Rolex as his daily watch and says they're the best watches you can buy under $10k.

 

[CollingsD2H]

I like this version in the Orioles' colors. 38mm

View attachment 1534959

Retail price is $5,900 but it can be yours today for $4,425!

Omega Seamaster Planet Ocean | Chrono24.com

Omega Seamaster Planet Ocean on Chrono24.com. New offers daily. In stock now. Save favorite watches & buy your dream watch.

www.chrono24.com

Looks good and this is a 600m. Damn.

 

[hpreston]

But, they're usually 44mm and up. I've got a small wrist.

I also have small wrists. I have a 40mm Sinn 856, it does not look too large on my by any stretch. There are plenty of Sinn models that are 40mm and 42mm.

 

[CollingsD2H]

This is sort of nonsense, to be honest. I own both Rolex and Omega. Omega makes very nice watches (the co-ax movement is in theory quite excellent, and we'll see how it ages). When I bought my Omega I compared it head to head with a Rolex Oyster Perpetual and bought the Omega.

Then I bought a Submariner, and I can say without question it's nicer than my Omega. And it keeps FAR better time than my Omega with Co-ax movement.

Anyone who says that Rolex doesn't make fantastic watches just has an axe to grind.

Or, you could just ask Roger Smith, who wears a Rolex as his daily watch and says they're the best watches you can buy under $10k.

I have no dog in this fight. I can't even afford a Rolex watch. I wouldn't mind a Rolex Sub.

 

[Idesofmarch17]

This is sort of nonsense, to be honest. I own both Rolex and Omega. Omega makes very nice watches (the co-ax movement is in theory quite excellent, and we'll see how it ages). When I bought my Omega I compared it head to head with a Rolex Oyster Perpetual and bought the Omega.

Then I bought a Submariner, and I can say without question it's nicer than my Omega. And it keeps FAR better time than my Omega with Co-ax movement.

Anyone who says that Rolex doesn't make fantastic watches just has an axe to grind.

Or, you could just ask Roger Smith, who wears a Rolex as his daily watch and says they're the best watches you can buy under $10k.

No quibble here, other than to point out that almost no one can buy a Rolex sports model for under 10k unless they already have an AD connection. I would love to hand over 10k to an AD for a sports model, but I haven’t been deemed worthy enough. That’s why I think the price value per dollar puts the recent Omegas on the same level as Rolex. Sure, a Sub probably is better than an Omega 300 SMP, but for 4x the cost, plus the incredible hassle of actually getting your hands on one makes the price-value discussion legitimate, at least in my mind.

 

[mak1277]

I have no dog in this fight. I can't even afford a Rolex watch. I wouldn't mind a Rolex Sub.

Oh, I know. I just think there's a lot of negative emotion about Rolex for reasons that have nothing to do with the watches.

 

[mak1277]

No quibble here, other than to point out that almost no one can buy a Rolex sports model for under 10k unless they already have an AD connection. I would love to hand over 10k to an AD for a sports model, but I haven’t been deemed worthy enough. That’s why I think the price value per dollar puts the recent Omegas on the same level as Rolex. Sure, a Sub probably is better than an Omega 300 SMP, but for 4x the cost, plus the incredible hassle of actually getting your hands on one makes the price-value discussion legitimate, at least in my mind.

Agree. I was very lucky to walk into an AD in Jan. 2018 and buy my Sub right out of the display case. I realize that's not possible now.

And my comments had nothing to do with value or perceived value, just the quality of the watches themselves.

 

[CollingsD2H]

Oh, I know. I just think there's a lot of negative emotion about Rolex for reasons that have nothing to do with the watches.

So look at it from my point of view. I JUST entered the watch market and don't know enough about the Rolex history so I google and watch videos on YouTube. For some reason, I see way too many videos bashing Rolex and stating that they're overpriced, etc. To someone who has not formed an opinion, these videos do influence whether they are true or not. I am not some clown that believes everything there is on the internet but when the time comes and I want a Rolex sub or a Yacht Master, then I'll do my own due diligence before pulling the trigger. As of right now, I'm just going by what I have observed online. I am not a watch expert so I dare not say anything about any brand.

 

[mak1277]

So look at it from my point of view. I JUST entered the watch market and don't know enough about the Rolex history so I google and watch videos on YouTube. For some reason, I see way too many videos bashing Rolex and stating that they're overpriced, etc. To someone who has not formed an opinion, these videos do influence whether they are true or not. I am not some clown that believes everything there is on the internet but when the time comes and I want a Rolex sub or a Yacht Master, then I'll do my own due diligence before pulling the trigger. As of right now, I'm just going by what I have observed online. I am not a watch expert so I dare not say anything about any brand.

Two articles that I'd recommend:

Inside The Manufacture: Going Where Few Have Gone Before – Inside All Four Rolex Manufacturing Facilities

For the first time, we go inside all of Rolex's factories in Switzerland, and what we found amazed us.

www.hodinkee.com

This is long, but scroll down to the "Inside Rolex Today" part and tell me that's not impressive.

The Rolex Problem: A (Semi) Rational Look At The World's Most Recognized Watch

I have a friend who is a watch journalist (strange, but true.) This individual, who shall remain nameless, has been covering the watch industry for decades; there are few who know the ins, outs, industry gossip, and inside stories as well. And this person hates Rolex --the mere mention of the...

www.forbes.com

This one talks about the "three levels of Rolex appreciation", which I have found to be very valid in real life.

 

[smittycl]

I also have small wrists. I have a 40mm Sinn 856, it does not look too large on my by any stretch. There are plenty of Sinn models that are 40mm and 42mm.

I've always liked the Sin 556 line. I think they are 38 or 39mm.

EDIT: I see the 856 is very similar but a hair larger. Am thinking of Sinn 456 in MOP for wifey.

Sinn Uhren: Modell 456 St Mother-of-pearl W

www.sinn.de

Sinn 556i - Full Review - The Truth About Watches

The Sinn 556i is a luxury sports watch with a dial as black as a pimp's heart. A superb timekeeper safe to 200m below the waves. Read the full review.

thetruthaboutwatches.com

 

[scurvyfreedman]

Walt Odets, who was an amateur watchmaker, and who modified movements and did a lot of early digital photography of watch parts and movements to show fineness and finishing, opened up a Rolex Explorer about 20 years ago. Many of the watches he reviewed were really high end fine watchmaking - JLC, IWC including the perpetual calendar mechanism, Vacheron et Constantin, A. Lange, and Patek. His full list of reviews and closeup photographs are here: Timezone Walt Odets Horologium One of his two-part reviews was over the original DeVille Co-Axial. He wrote an article with pictures of different parts about the Explorer. Rolex Explorer Review The thing is, there is a difference between fineness, technical mastery, technical innovation, and function. Rolex is a functional thing. In terms of watchmaking, it's pretty boring, other than the revolutionary case.

I don't think Walt's position was due to some kind of lack of knowledge about watches or jealousy. He owned a watch collection valued in the range of $100k or more.

His conclusion is below:
The anomalies of the Rolex Explorer make
it difficult to neatly summarize a personal opinion. For me,
the only intriguing aspect of this watch is that a movement so
lacking is basic workmanship is capable of being so accurately
timed. This is, no doubt, a product of the thickness (and thus
permissible loose tolerances) of the movement, and the use of
computer-timed balance/spring assemblies. For the person for
whom accuracy of rate in a mechanical watch is the only criterion
in buying a watch, and for whom value-for-the-dollar is of little
concern, the Explorer might be a choice. In the current watch
market, the poor quality of the movement–and relatively good
quality of the case and dial–suggests that this watch should
retail in the $600 to $800 range. To my tastes, a quartz-controlled
watch would provide the functionality of this watch, do it even
better, do it with better reliability, do it at an appropriate
purchase price, do it at much lower routine maintenance costs,
and, in most cases, provide a better piece of craftsmanship in
the bargain. Obviously, for the person who wants “a Rolex”
for reasons unrelated to the watch itself, this watch might be
a choice.

For those who would insist on a mechanical
watch, there are innumerable other choices in the price range
of the Explorer, almost any of which would provide a movement
of much better quality. There are also many watches at a quarter
or less of the price of the Rolex that exhibit comparable or
better workmanship and quality. In fact, I think it would be difficult to find another
current production watch, at any price over a few hundred dollars,
as deficient in basic workmanship of the mechanicals as the Explorer.

I doubt that this watch is representative
of Rolex’s historical production. Fifteen or 20 years
ago, I believe the Rolex was what I expected this watch to be:
a sturdy, minimally finished but workmanlike, reliable, work-horse.

In thinking about how representative of current production
this one sample might be, one must consider how a company produces
700,000 or 800,000 watches in a year. They are produced on assembly
lines. Each part installed in the watch is selected randomly
from a bin of hundreds or thousands of like parts. Likewise,
each operation performed–or omitted–occurs randomly from among
thousands of like operations. Thus, to believe that this watch

does not represent the current approach to watch making
at Rolex, we must believe that this single watch is the unique
recipient of a dozen or more randomly-selected defective parts
and randomly performed deficient or omitted manufacturing procedures.

There are too many defects in this watch to support such an explanation.
A mass-produced product with multiple defects represents,
in itself, a form of statistical sampling of the total pool of
parts and manufacturing operations and procedures.

Clearly, the Oyster Perpetual Explorer
is not a watch that I could recommend. The cost-efficient engineering
of the movement is not remotely reflected in its price; and the
extreme ease of service is not reflected in routine service costs
provided by the manufacturer. The watch represents an extremely
poor value if purchased solely to provide accurate and reliable
timekeeping. And it is of no horological interest whatsoever.
The contrast between the relatively good external appearance
of the watch and the internal appearance is absolutely unparalled
in my experience. I cannot think of another consumer product
in which the gulf between the publicly perceived quality and
the reality I saw is as broad as with the Explorer.

 

[hpreston]

I've always liked the Sin 556 line. I think they are 38 or 39mm.

EDIT: I see the 856 is very similar but a hair larger. Am thinking of Sinn 456 in MOP for wifey.

Sinn Uhren: Modell 456 St Mother-of-pearl W

www.sinn.de

Sinn 556i - Full Review - The Truth About Watches

The Sinn 556i is a luxury sports watch with a dial as black as a pimp's heart. A superb timekeeper safe to 200m below the waves. Read the full review.

thetruthaboutwatches.com

I am very tempted to add the 556 with red second hand to my collection. Note, you are spot on, Watchbuys lists it at 38.5mm

 

[CollingsD2H]

Nobody likes the Sinn 356??? That's a beauty right there!