The Official Dieworkwear Appreciation Thread

[FlyingHorker]

The ranch cardigans are indeed unique. I wouldn't wear them, though, since they've just appropriated Native American designs for expensive made in China cardigans. I'd wear a Pendleton or authentic Chimayo coat since they actually support Native American artists and education programs. Even then, as a white boy, I probably wouldn't. Kanata cowichans are outstanding.

The appropriation topic is always interesting. Before, I wouldn't have touched anything "southwestern" inspired for the same reasons you mentioned. The culture you're borrowing from is not being supported, so why wear it?

Then, I felt that most of fashion is global and entwined, is it even possible to appropriate other culture's clothing?

My heritage is Indian, so I think of India's influences on clothing that everyone wears today. Pyjama pants, printed fabrics, paisley, bleeding madras. From what I know, a lot of these weren't even original to India, the country has historically had a rich cloth trade.

I find other culture's usage of Indian fabrics and designs to be a cool, natural evolution of fashion. I'm speaking from a privileged position though, I don't have any direct connection to a lot of this growing up in Canada.

To argue against myself, I'd be pretty annoyed if someone used a turban simply as a form of a fashion statement. I'm arguably just coming up with excuses to wear things I find cool without regard to appropriation. I'm not Native American, so how can I presume to speak on behalf of them?

 

[zissou]

Then, I felt that most of fashion is global and entwined, is it even possible to appropriate other culture's clothing?

Yes. Even with Pendleton, a white-owned company that pays Native American artists to create designs and then supports arts education programs, it is a sensitive subject. Pendleton blankets have been an important part of Native American culture for over a century, and many Native Americans cringe at seeing Pendleton designs incorporated into fashion.

 

[FlyingHorker]

Yes. Even with Pendleton, a white-owned company that pays Native American artists to create designs and then supports arts education programs, it is a sensitive subject. Pendleton blankets have been an important part of Native American culture for over a century, and many Native Americans cringe at seeing Pendleton designs incorporated into fashion.

Even with Kanata, the only thing I know about them is they're based in Canada, they hand-knit their sweaters, and are a family owned business.

Sure that nails the "artisanal" checkboxes, but I don't know if they even have any direct connection to supporting Native Americans outside of inspiration. I don't think that's overly different from the other companies, even if it is closer to home.

 

[gdl203]

Every Kanata is hand-knitted by Native American families in Vancouver island. Kanata does not employ the knitters, they work by the piece at home so they can also raise families, etc… Cowichan knits literally made by Cowichan people

 

[krudsma]

Isn't it great? The construction and materials are definitely on par with the Nigel Cabourn outerwear that I own. I'd love to look into more S. Korean brands, but i'm generally too tall and skinny.

Agreed. I love the corduroy facing on the pockets and collar. I'm also tall and skinny so I was shocked that it fit me but the length is perfect. I looked through the rest of their stuff to see if there was anything else I should add to the order but everything else seemed like it would be too short. Let me know if you find any similar brands that fit your frame - I feel like us tall skinny guys need our own slack channel or something.

Where did you guys order your frizmworks from? Looks great and I’ve been in the market for a parka.

I got mine directly through the frizmworks site - I had planned to get it through All Blues Co. but they were out of my size. measurements were in Korean but a little google translate magic takes care of it. Shipping was pricey but the overall cost is so low that it was still a very affordable option.

 

[FlyingHorker]

Every Kanata is hand-knitted by Native American families in Vancouver island. Kanata does not employ the knitters, they work by the piece at home so they can also raise families, etc… Cowichan knits literally made by Cowichan people

Interesting, where did you find this information? I know NMWA carries Kanata knits, so does Kanata give out more information as a supplier?

I couldn't find it on their website, they repeatedly mention "Cowichan-inspired".

 

[gdl203]

Interesting, where did you find this information? I know NMWA carries Kanata knits, so does Kanata give out more information as a supplier?

I couldn't find it on their website, they repeatedly mention "Cowichan-inspired".

From the company itself. Major, the father, passed away a couple of years ago but he explained the piece work process and working with independent native knitters on Vancouver island. Most of their designs are indeed cowichan-inspired : they collaborate with a lot of brands to design sweaters that are nothing like traditional cowichans (which have animal, patterns and knots that have specific meanings or are associated with specific families). Kanata has used the native knitters to make “fashion” versions for 30 or 40 years. Some have motorcycles on them - ours has a Japanese-inspired sweeping crane on it. These are not true cowichans in the traditional sense (and I think the tribes have a specific set of design requirements and processes that are needed to get the “genuine cowichan” appellation). One of them is that each piece is made by one knitted from start to finish and I remember Major saying that they do not work like that: they have knitters make panels that are then linked.

It’s also possible to buy custom pieces directly from the knitters - what the Manders did was create a somewhat modern process to continue to employ native knitters as part of a more efficient wholesale business.

that’s all I know.

 

[zissou]

Agreed. I love the corduroy facing on the pockets and collar. I'm also tall and skinny so I was shocked that it fit me but the length is perfect. I looked through the rest of their stuff to see if there was anything else I should add to the order but everything else seemed like it would be too short. Let me know if you find any similar brands that fit your frame - I feel like us tall skinny guys need our own slack channel or something.

Yeah, everything else looks super short and/or boxy, which is the wrong fit for me. The Karakoram has just the right amount of slouchiness to it with enough length.

 

[TheShetlandSweater]

The appropriation topic is always interesting. Before, I wouldn't have touched anything "southwestern" inspired for the same reasons you mentioned. The culture you're borrowing from is not being supported, so why wear it?

Then, I felt that most of fashion is global and entwined, is it even possible to appropriate other culture's clothing?

My heritage is Indian, so I think of India's influences on clothing that everyone wears today. Pyjama pants, printed fabrics, paisley, bleeding madras. From what I know, a lot of these weren't even original to India, the country has historically had a rich cloth trade.

I find other culture's usage of Indian fabrics and designs to be a cool, natural evolution of fashion. I'm speaking from a privileged position though, I don't have any direct connection to a lot of this growing up in Canada.

To argue against myself, I'd be pretty annoyed if someone used a turban simply as a form of a fashion statement. I'm arguably just coming up with excuses to wear things I find cool without regard to appropriation. I'm not Native American, so how can I presume to speak on behalf of them?

My take on this is the same as ever. I call it the "just a test".

I am Jewish. A bagel is a Jewish food. However, a bagel is just a piece of food. There isn't really any deeper significance to it, though it has its own history and it may evoke certain emotions for some people. I enoy a bagel as a piece of food. I have no problem if others do as well (though a part of me will always cringe if I see someone put bacon on one).

Challah is not just a piece of food. It has religious significance. When people eat it as just food, they are stripping it of its significance. Literally, they are appropriating it to their own wants and needs. They are taking something that has a particular meaning and specialness to certain people and ignoring all that, treating it as just another food, only appreciating it as an aesthetic object. (Nonetheless, I don't get offended because I don't think people know better.)

I think the same goes for a lot of clothing. A lot of clothing from various cultures is just clothing. If you wear it, that means you appreciate it as a piece of clothing in much the same way that the people of the culture from which the garment originates appreciate it. You may appreciate it less, but I think you are mostly appreciating it in the same way.

A lot of clothing, however, has particular meanings. If you just wear such pieces of clothing just as clothing, you are only appreciating the aesthetic element and are ignoring all these other meanings. People should try not to do this.

 

[imatlas]

So, no challah French toast, then.

Sucks to be you.

 

[hoodog]

Clothes are fun. For me at least, it's only a hobby. Don't overthink it. There are worse problems out there to spend your energy on.

 

[TheShetlandSweater]

So, no challah French toast, then.

Sucks to be you.

That's for leftovers.

 

[Substanceoverstyle]

My take on this is the same as ever. I call it the "just a test".

I am Jewish. A bagel is a Jewish food. However, a bagel is just a piece of food. There isn't really any deeper significance to it, though it has its own history and it may evoke certain emotions for some people. I enoy a bagel as a piece of food. I have no problem if others do as well (though a part of me will always cringe if I see someone put bacon on one).

Challah is not just a piece of food. It has religious significance. When people eat it as just food, they are stripping it of its significance. Literally, they are appropriating it to their own wants and needs. They are taking something that has a particular meaning and specialness to certain people and ignoring all that, treating it as just another food, only appreciating it as an aesthetic object. (Nonetheless, I don't get offended because I don't think people know better.)

I never realized that the origin of braided bread had a specific religious background, so that's definitely something interesting to have learned as someone with an interest in both food and religion. But, like with your bagel example, its still just braided bread for me. What has significant religious meaning in one culture might be a lot more mundane in the other. Of course this can lead to some painful misunderstandings, but for me the main takeaway here is that I should not offer braided bread to religious Jewish people, not stop eating it all together. Where I live (EU) the braided bread is something you especially see around this time of year with Christmas celebrations for aesthetic purposes. Christmas of course in a similiar vein being widely celebrated here by secular people stripped from its religious meaning.

 

[d4nimal]

Compare RRL’s Karakoram style $800 parka with Frizmworks’ insanely well made version for about $175.

I just bought that Frizmworks parka! I have to agree that for the price I'm really impressed, it definitely feels like a legit Karakoram. Makes me regret all the hours I sunk into searching for a vintage Eddie Bauer model on ebay.

How'd you guys size for the Frizmworks parka btw? I've been looking at it for a few years now, which means that maybe it's time. I also love the look of the original Eddie Bauer and the Nigel pieces, but don't want to get into those for the reasons you both listed.

Bummed I passed on the orange parka last year - that color is stellar.

*Edit - I'm also in the tall/skinny club. Just send me the slack invite.

 

[hoodog]

Still, the Cabourn parka is pretty awesome.

(full disclosure, I might be a bit biased since I have one)