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The Official Dieworkwear Appreciation Thread

mhip

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The whole time I was in Italy, next to no men in shorts, except a few really pasty tourists.
It was phenomenal...
 

slows2k

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What should we make of the fact that Americans love shorts on men, but hate short bathing suits on the same men, where Europeans tend to be the opposite? I was reflecting on the comment above that Europeans rarely, if ever, wear shorts. They do, however, skimp quite mightily on bathing suit length. In the United States most would not be caught dead in bathing suits with inseams that hit above their knees but happily wear shorts all the time.

People here on SF often express distaste towards shorts and relief at being in Europe where men don't wear shorts, yet if they are anywhere near a European beach it is essentially stepping onto the set of Magic Mike. If distaste about the exposed male leg were the issue, why are the not equally upset by European beaches as they are about short pants here?

I feel like I am struggling to articulate what I find confusing or unsettling about this, but I figured I would try and get it out there so there may be some discussion.
 

true.to.size

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I personally can't jive with the idea that men's legs are just inherently ugly and deserving of shame and coverings. I know that's not strictly what the article is advocating, but Derek falls victim to the stuffy sentiment at times with lines like "There’s no way around it: most men look irredeemably goofy in shorts." Talking about how he'll get back to pants, but is on a shorts break works to discount the validity of shorts as a garment as reasonable for anything but vacation.

I don't disagree that shorts don't fit in in a traditional business setting, but that doesn't mean that men look bad in shorts, should be ashamed for showing their legs, or that shorts shouldn't be work outside one's own home, and that's definitely the vibe I get from the article at times.

Also, the whole bit about the Joyce brand getting their "friend" to model for them is gross. A bunch of rich motherfuckers hiding out at the family villa getting the hired help to try on their clothes comes across real slavemaster-like. "I know honey, we can get Omar from groundskeeping to wear the collection. His proportions are perfect!" Get back to me with a cute parenthetical about how Omar was justly compensated for his modeling work.
I had a similar reaction to the info about the Joyce photoshoot... I've been contemplating getting one of their jackets, and that has made it easier not to, which is good I guess because I've been trying to spend less anyway...
 

dieworkwear

Mahatma Jawndi
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Also, the whole bit about the Joyce brand getting their "friend" to model for them is gross. A bunch of rich motherfuckers hiding out at the family villa getting the hired help to try on their clothes comes across real slavemaster-like. "I know honey, we can get Omar from groundskeeping to wear the collection. His proportions are perfect!" Get back to me with a cute parenthetical about how Omar was justly compensated for his modeling work.

"Slavemaster" seems like a harsh interpretation. I think you can be friends with the people who work in your home.
 

mhip

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( slows2K )
I get what you're saying, and it's a fair point.
The men's European bathing suits take an adjustment, but I don't mind them, because it's appropriate at the beach.
The beach is not the city, and the 2 worlds should not collide. I feel the same way about guy feet.
In the words of the late, great Glenn O'Brien: "flip flops are appropriate at the beach, or at the spa". That's it...
 

Oldsrocket27

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"Slavemaster" seems like a harsh interpretation. I think you can be friends with the people who work in your home.
"Slavemaster" may well be too strong, but it's hard to avoid that association when dealing with rich landowners (I'm assuming white based on name and nationality) who hire people of color from typically vulnerable backgrounds to maintain their estate. Even in a less sinister setting, I've known many a manger who likes to assume that subordinates in the workplace are friends simply because they are pleasant out of necessity. That doesn't make the assumption the truth.

Maybe John and Omar really are friends, I don't know them. But putting the note about Omar's working for John's family in the article casts the whole thing in a bad light. I can understand the impulse to include it; letting the reader know Omar's an employee of the estate is the more honest route, re-emphasizes that the family is sheltering in place, and presents the most complete picture of the situation. On the other hand, it doesn't paint the best picture of the brand, and omitting the fact that Omar works for John's family would make the blurb for Joyce a lot neater and more innocent.

In any case, it created an end to the article that was aggravating, to the point of my feeling the need to come on here and comment about it.
 

pblzqlcn

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What should we make of the fact that Americans love shorts on men, but hate short bathing suits on the same men, where Europeans tend to be the opposite? I was reflecting on the comment above that Europeans rarely, if ever, wear shorts. They do, however, skimp quite mightily on bathing suit length. In the United States most would not be caught dead in bathing suits with inseams that hit above their knees but happily wear shorts all the time.

People here on SF often express distaste towards shorts and relief at being in Europe where men don't wear shorts, yet if they are anywhere near a European beach it is essentially stepping onto the set of Magic Mike. If distaste about the exposed male leg were the issue, why are the not equally upset by European beaches as they are about short pants here?

I feel like I am struggling to articulate what I find confusing or unsettling about this, but I figured I would try and get it out there so there may be some discussion.

they are at the beach
 

Texasmade

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When I was in Barcelona for vacation a few years ago, I saw a bunch of locals in jean shorts walking around. Only other Euro city I've been to in the summer was Paris and they don't wear shorts.
 

Keith Taylor

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As a European, the idea that we don't wear shorts here is one of those weird Internet myths that just refuses to die. Spend a few weeks in Spain, Portugal or the south of France and you'll see them everywhere in the summer. Not suitable for work or nice restaurants obviously, but fine everywhere else.

Seconded. Having spent most of my young life in the UK and a couple of years living in France, Spain and Italy I’ve never noticed any particular European aversion to shorts. We like them just fine.

I’ve only spent a few months in the US so don’t have enough experience to make a fair comparison. My limited experience suggests to me that American men may, in general, have a rather broader range of situations in which they think shorts are the best option, though that’s hardly the same thing as “Europeans hate shorts.”
 

Keith Taylor

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... That said, it’s certainly true that Europeans can be a little more bold in their choices of swimwear, and this is one area in which I strongly agree with the more modest American approach. One of my strongest memories is of my parents dragging me to a nudist beach In France around the age of 12, just as I was at peak “I’m almost a teenager and my body is a terrifying horror show”. I can still remember the unpleasant consistency of the mixture of embarrassed tears, snot and sand as I sat, fully clothed, for three hours with my head between my legs praying for the beach to open up beneath me.

Swimwear is weirdly culturally specific. Thai people tend to swim in t-shirts, which I always found odd; a delicate balancing act between a tropical environment and religious modesty that resulted in something that appears entirely inappropriate for the activity.
 
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dkboze

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Also, the whole bit about the Joyce brand getting their "friend" to model for them is gross. A bunch of rich motherfuckers hiding out at the family villa getting the hired help to try on their clothes comes across real slavemaster-like. "I know honey, we can get Omar from groundskeeping to wear the collection. His proportions are perfect!" Get back to me with a cute parenthetical about how Omar was justly compensated for his modeling work.

"Slavemaster" may well be too strong, but it's hard to avoid that association when dealing with rich landowners (I'm assuming white based on name and nationality) who hire people of color from typically vulnerable backgrounds to maintain their estate. Even in a less sinister setting, I've known many a manger who likes to assume that subordinates in the workplace are friends simply because they are pleasant out of necessity. That doesn't make the assumption the truth.

Maybe John and Omar really are friends, I don't know them. But putting the note about Omar's working for John's family in the article casts the whole thing in a bad light. I can understand the impulse to include it; letting the reader know Omar's an employee of the estate is the more honest route, re-emphasizes that the family is sheltering in place, and presents the most complete picture of the situation. On the other hand, it doesn't paint the best picture of the brand, and omitting the fact that Omar works for John's family would make the blurb for Joyce a lot neater and more innocent.
I like Joyce, shorts, and DWW's piece but their Omar thing did sit weird. He's modeling for you, treat him as a model, don't condescend to him and validate yourselves by telling some strange story about having taken him in
 

Numbernine

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POLICE-CHIEFS-Convention-Vegas-e1548323189794.jpg
 

dieworkwear

Mahatma Jawndi
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I like Joyce, shorts, and DWW's piece but their Omar thing did sit weird. He's modeling for you, treat him as a model, don't condescend to him and validate yourselves by telling some strange story about having taken him in

To clarify, that bit was disclosed because the company is located in Italy, where there's a shelter in place order. Since they can't go out to shoot a lookbook, they had to improvise in their home. I'm not sure what should have been said instead? I wanted to disclose they're sheltering in place, not going out to shoot lookbooks with models and photographers. But I don't know how else to describe Omar except to say that he's a friend of the family and a worker on the property.

I don't know why people are assuming the worst of their relationship. Associating free labor with slavery, even if on a wealthy property, seems a bit much.

I know this isn't what people meant, but I also think it's a great thing that he's an immigrant. Wasn't saying that as some pity story. My parents are Vietnamese immigrants and I'm proud of their story.
 

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