• Hi, I'm the owner and main administrator of Styleforum. If you find the forum useful and fun, please help support it by buying through the posted links on the forum. Our main, very popular sales thread, where the latest and best sales are listed, are posted HERE

    Purchases made through some of our links earns a commission for the forum and allows us to do the work of maintaining and improving it. Finally, thanks for being a part of this community. We realize that there are many choices today on the internet, and we have all of you to thank for making Styleforum the foremost destination for discussions of menswear.
  • STYLE. COMMUNITY. GREAT CLOTHING.

    Bored of counting likes on social networks? At Styleforum, you’ll find rousing discussions that go beyond strings of emojis.

    Click Here to join Styleforum's thousands of style enthusiasts today!

The Official Dieworkwear Appreciation Thread

wkt

Active Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2020
Messages
39
Reaction score
13
1.9L is a lot of tea. That's 64oz?

As you go up, it's harder to control the brew. I don't know the science behind it. But I notice it even with a 12oz cup.

If you brew a very small cup, it's easier to get the fuller flavor. The tea tastes a lot better. But as I noted, if you're brewing very small amounts at a time, that has to be your activity for that given period. It's not like you can type emails and then sip on tea (I guess you could, but it would be inefficient).

With a 12oz cup, you can put tea in a metal strainer and then just eyeball it. You kind of know how dark you want your tea at some point. But it's hard to get that fuller, richer flavor. The tea ends up tasting a bit watery. If you leave the tea leaves in there too long, the water can cool down (not ideal) or you can burn the leaves (which leaves a bitter flavor).

Some teas, such as jasmine, are pretty easy to brew. I don't know about 1.9L, but you can brew big jasmine tea balls and leave them in a big teapot with little ill effect. (Pictured below).

But for expensive teas, I don't know if I would go above 12oz. At some point, you may be missing out on the flavor.

For me, I mostly drink li shan high mountain, dong ding, and jasmine. Sometimes I'll drink hōjicha in the winter. It's a very dark, woody Japanese tea. But to be honest, it's rare. I'm mostly oolong like 99% of the time.

I would just experiment. Even relatively expensive tea is not that expensive, so it's not a big deal if you waste some leaves.


View attachment 1507976
you are like a machine of culture, you write longform blog posts about clothes daily and now you post about the details of brewing tea, what other things are you good at that styleforum doens't know about and you should post about that too.
 

brax

Distinguished Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2008
Messages
1,788
Reaction score
1,685
You can call objects oriental like oriental rugs or whatever but you can't call people oriental. As my Vietnamese friend used to say "I'm not a fucking rug".
In my experience, this is absolutely true. The people/object distinction is an important one with different adjectives attached to each.
 

Calanon

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2019
Messages
81
Reaction score
37
Yes, some posts get taken down after a while for various reasons. I've put that one back up, though.

Do people actually look at old posts? I just assumed the number who do so is so small, no one would care or notice.
I know I do. I actually tried to go on the brown moleskins post but that's been taken down too. I also sometimes like looking back at the image reel at the end, or sometimes I bookmark them due to some useful information.
 

Calanon

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2019
Messages
81
Reaction score
37
You can call objects oriental like oriental rugs or whatever but you can't call people oriental. As my Vietnamese friend used to say "I'm not a fucking rug".
Not defending Oriental, but this is a slightly weird logic - Persian people aren't rugs either, it is just an (outdated and sometimes pejorative) adjective.
Regarding the "Far East", I think the common objections to the term are that (1) it is Europe-centric--it doesn't make sense to call it the Far East if it isn't way to the east of you. It is also a bit arrogant and dismissive to call it the Far East for this reason. Imagine if the place you lived was commonly know as the Far West. This would be another way of saying that you live on the outskirts of civilization, not in the places where important things happen. (2) It exoticizes the places it denotes--they are far off in the East where things are different. Here, "far" doesn't just refer to physical difference but also to cultural difference. It is important to point out here that places like Australia and New Zealand that are slightly more to the east of Europe than places like China and Japan are not considered part of the Far East, because they aren't that different culturally than Europe.

I don't want to imply that "Far East" is a super-offensive term or that people who use it are bigoted or anything like that, but I understand why the term has fallen out of favor.
Many Americans happily say they are from the Midwest so this isn't always the case, but yeah there is a difference being given the name vs it being your own.
Haven't heard "Far East" for some time in the UK but I think it was used generally to distinguish from "Middle East" (UK usage) rather than to make "East" seem more foreign, as it were. Some academics here are more likely to say "Arabian peninsula" or something but "Middle East" is still the normal term.
In fairness, the Middle East covers a lot more than just the Arabian Peninsula, and it isn't the same as Western Asia either.
 

TheShetlandSweater

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2020
Messages
431
Reaction score
455
Many Americans happily say they are from the Midwest so this isn't always the case, but yeah there is a difference being given the name vs it being your own.
I think it's a little different. All Americans will say that they are from the East, or the West, or the South, or the Midwest, or the Southwest, etc. These directions are relative to the country of America as a whole. But the difference is this: America objectively has an easternmost point and a westernmost point; the world does not. Japan is to the west of people in Mexico, for instance. This is where the Euro-centricity of the term comes from.

I think "Far East" is more like "Deep South" insofar as "Deep South" isn't just a marker of geography (Miami is farther south than Alabama but is certainly not part of the Deep South) but also a marker of cultural difference. Now, people in the Deep South may pride themselves on living in the Deep South, which they may see as the true, authentic South, but that is a different story.

Again, I don't think the term is the worst by any stretch and I don't think most people who use it mean much by it.
 

Texasmade

Stylish Dinosaur
Joined
Apr 26, 2008
Messages
12,225
Reaction score
11,360
Not defending Oriental, but this is a slightly weird logic - Persian people aren't rugs either, it is just an (outdated and sometimes pejorative) adjective.
Could it be that different people like or don't like to be called different things? There's no one universal rule (other than don't use the n-word).
 

FlyingHorker

Distinguished Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2014
Messages
2,853
Reaction score
2,503
I heard a co-worker say "Oriental people" once and I flinched.

Reminds me of eating "oriental ramen noodles" as a kid. I instantly associated that comment with calling someone a pack of noodles. Sounded weird.
 

FlyingHorker

Distinguished Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2014
Messages
2,853
Reaction score
2,503
There's really nothing particularly odd about that either. Europe also used to be called the Occident. Both derive from Latin terms which denote where the sun sets (occidens) and rises (oriens). So an oriental scent uses ingredients mainly found in the East.

If anything, Asian should be a far worse term, as it lumps together hugely divergent nations, and is culturally specific.
The thing is, occidental is basically never used, only heard oriental.

Due to how I've seen it used, it seemed dehumanizing and objectifying. Asian is pretty neutral and doesn't have negative connotations.
 

Nobilis Animus

Distinguished Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2017
Messages
1,217
Reaction score
862
The thing is, occidental is basically never used, only heard oriental.

Due to how I've seen it used, it seemed dehumanizing and objectifying. Asian is pretty neutral and doesn't have negative connotations.
Oh I agree, what I meant to distinguish between is the actual meaning of the term - which is neutral - as opposed to the usage of that term, which has been misused and has had connotations attached to it which are both linguistically and geographically nonsensical. Objecting to that misuse is perfectly understandable.

Asian may not currently have negative connotations, but the way the term is usually employed is entirely ignorant- such as using "Asians" to mean certain types of people. It immediately conjures a mental picture of certain ethnic groups whilst excluding others like Persians, Indians, Arabs, etc., and so betrays itself as a national term disguised as a geographical one.

Interestingly, terms like Middle Eastern are still widely used. It seems a bit of an inaccuracy to object to geographical distinctions on the basis of their being Euro-centric, when the earth is a globe, so anything is centric to somewhere, and the physical context of the conversation is in a Western country. The whole idea of an East and West is arbitrary anyway - west of what, exactly? These terms, along with Oriental and Occidental, only really make sense from the point of view of ancient scholars who viewed the Mediterranean as the centre of the world.

Of course, when ignoramuses got ahold of useful terms they generally tend to ruin them for everyone else by twisting their meaning, so the way Oriental is used now is inappropriate.
 

FlyingHorker

Distinguished Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2014
Messages
2,853
Reaction score
2,503
Oh I agree, what I meant to distinguish between is the actual meaning of the term - which is neutral - as opposed to the usage of that term, which has been misused and has had connotations attached to it which are both linguistically and geographically nonsensical. Objecting to that misuse is perfectly understandable.

Asian may not currently have negative connotations, but the way the term is usually employed is entirely ignorant- such as using "Asians" to mean certain types of people. It immediately conjures a mental picture of certain ethnic groups whilst excluding others like Persians, Indians, Arabs, etc., and so betrays itself as a national term disguised as a geographical one.

Interestingly, terms like Middle Eastern are still widely used. It seems a bit of an inaccuracy to object to geographical distinctions on the basis of their being Euro-centric, when the earth is a globe, so anything is centric to somewhere, and the physical context of the conversation is in a Western country. The whole idea of an East and West is arbitrary anyway - west of what, exactly? These terms, along with Oriental and Occidental, only really make sense from the point of view of ancient scholars who viewed the Mediterranean as the centre of the world.

Of course, when ignoramuses got ahold of useful terms they generally tend to ruin them for everyone else by twisting their meaning, so the way Oriental is used now is inappropriate.
The bolded nails it.
 

dieworkwear

Mahatma Jawndi
Dubiously Honored
Joined
Apr 10, 2011
Messages
19,384
Reaction score
46,130
Asian may not currently have negative connotations, but the way the term is usually employed is entirely ignorant- such as using "Asians" to mean certain types of people. It immediately conjures a mental picture of certain ethnic groups whilst excluding others like Persians, Indians, Arabs, etc., and so betrays itself as a national term disguised as a geographical one.
As the term is used in the United States, I don't think Asian is offensive because the term Asian American was created in the 1960s and 70s out of the People's Liberation movement. The goal was to create a Pan-Asian identity, largely with East Asians and not people like Iranians. At the time, and still largely today, East Asians identify with their ethnic heritage first -- Vietnamese, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Filipino -- which are all very distinct cultures. But the goal of creating the Asian American identity was to show there are commonalities in these groups, especially as a political force in the US.

This came to a head for many Asian Americans in the 1980s, when a Chinese American named Vincent Chin was beaten to death in Michigan by an autoworker. This was during a time of immense anti-Japanese sentiment here and the autoworker mistook Chin to be Japanese.

Much of that discussion of Pan-Asian identity is very similar to the discussions about intersectionality today. The goal isn't geographical accuracy (what are the borders of Asia); it's about creating a political identity (what are some shared common struggles, etc).
 
Last edited:

dauster

Distinguished Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2019
Messages
1,026
Reaction score
530
somewhat related, i'm surprised people use "oriental" as a note/family in the fragrance world still
As someone who makes jokes with his wife about it and since she is from the Philippines I can definitely confirm that this "O" term is considered offensive for most people.
 

Nobilis Animus

Distinguished Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2017
Messages
1,217
Reaction score
862
The term Asian American was created by Asian Americans living here. It came out of the 1960s and 70s People's Liberation movements. Before this, and still largely today, Asians here don't necessarily identify as Asian first, but rather their ethnic heritage -- Chinese, Japanese, Vietnamese, Korean, Filipino, etc. Part of the goal of creating the Pan-Asian identity was to show the commonalities between these very distinct groups, as it would be used to fight for broader East Asian issues. For many Asian Americans, this came to a head with the death of Vincent Chin, a Chinese American who was beaten to death in Michigan by an auto-worker and his stepson because they mistook him for being Japanese. This was during the height of anti-Japanese sentiment at the time in the 1980s when American auto manufacturing was in decline.

So while the term Asian American glosses over many of the differences between these East Asian groups, it was created by Asians living here, and intentionally used to create a Pan-Asian identity.
Sure, I understand that Asian is generally a term with neutral connotations, but I don't know that that makes it free from criticism. Its basis - a Pan-Asian identity - makes it less ethnically-neutral than a geographical distinction would be.

Of course, it is still the more acceptable term these days. It's just interesting to note that it also carries connotations other than what its literal definition implies, i.e. not merely people from Asia, but rather East Asian nations.

Again, even the terms East and West only make sense from the point of view of their focus - the ancient Mediterranean, which literally means "middle of the earth." Orient and Occident are more Roman-Empire-centric than anything.
 

Nobilis Animus

Distinguished Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2017
Messages
1,217
Reaction score
862
Much of that discussion of Pan-Asian identity is very similar to the discussions about intersectionality today. The goal isn't geographical accuracy (what are the borders of Asia); it's about creating a political identity (what are some shared common struggles, etc).
And the idea of using ethnic heritage as a basis for political identity is one which is highly controversial.

Unraveling the connotations which are alien to a word from what that word actually means is hugely important if we are to try avoiding misunderstandings. Otherwise we are simply misusing terms in another way.
 

dieworkwear

Mahatma Jawndi
Dubiously Honored
Joined
Apr 10, 2011
Messages
19,384
Reaction score
46,130
And the idea of using ethnic heritage as a basis for political identity is one which is highly controversial.

Unraveling the connotations which are alien to a word from what that word actually means is hugely important if we are to try avoiding misunderstandings. Otherwise we are simply misusing terms in another way.
Perhaps, but I think it would be up to people in that community to decide what they want to be called and what tools they would like to use for political organizing. Part of the point of creating the term Asian American was that the term was created by and for people in that community, not like Oriental, which was imposed and comes with connotations of foreign conquest. I don't mean to say that "outsiders" don't have a right to contribute to that conversation, but I'm not sure a white guy has the right to say what Asians should call themselves or be offended by.

Part of the point of creating that Pan Asian identity is because people in that group to face common struggles, as ethnic issues are real issues in real life. They are not created out of terms; they are faced on a day to day basis when you interact with people. The creation of the Pan Asian identity was partly to address that.
 

Styleforum is proudly sponsored by

Featured Sponsor

Work From Home: What's Your Attire?

  • PJs & Slippers

  • Cozy loungewear

  • Casual outfit (wool cardigan, chinos, etc)

  • Suit or sport coat and dress trousers


Results are only viewable after voting.

Related Threads

Forum statistics

Threads
452,192
Messages
9,791,103
Members
204,304
Latest member
lboom
Top