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The Official Dieworkwear Appreciation Thread

scurvyfreedman

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Reading meanings into situations that aren't necessarily there.

I don't regard the term postmodern highly, since many phenomenas considered postmodern did exist earlier.

Think about an alien (from space) sitting in a bus full of people. What it sees is just people sitting still.

But in their heads the people go through numerous conversations and battles with their spouses, friends, parents, bosses etc.

None of those are true, since they happen in their heads. The opponent of their arguments are not there to actually give a response. It's in their imagination only.

The sentences in the quotation are just that, no matter how fancy one formulates them. Some wanker just put them in a book and now people think that's actually.. what? Valid?

"In the specific passage I talked about, Miller goes into how slaves made satirical songs during these parades about white masters. They wore certain clothes and kind of danced around, mocking them."

I don't question this, I question the interpretation of this and what will be made out of it. Whatever you make of it, it's usually not true. A bit like arguing with someone in your head just to realize when meeting the very same person that "oh, it wasn't like that".

If the meaning of this kind of conversation is purely artistic by nature, sort of leaning into aestetics, that's fine.

History as a field of study has the same problem; one always misses something, leaves stuff out, interprets, constructs, makes assumptions and whatnot, not least depending of the decade he or she lives in. Even history studies has trends and seasons.

PS: also of course you could read the terms 'signaling', 'identity' and such into the category of postmodern.
Nobody is an expert because non-experts give their opinions frequently on the same subject. - this is flawed.
 

Bromley

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This is why I will never have a clothes blog.
 

dieworkwear

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One more question for @dieworkwear regarding your blogpost:

If your point didn't have anything meaningful to do with actual consumer culture and it was more to do with finding new lighthearted 'reasons' to buy crap, do you think people actually need to find reasons to keep buying?

I mean, do you have reason with yourself, find a good excuse to buy something? Isn't that fooling yourself? Does one really have to create false reasoning to keep buying and buying? After all, we came into conclusion, there's no problem with actual systems we live in, it's a problem with individuals, communities and so on, kind of moral issue. But in that sense I could say I'm actually better person than anyone else and can justify anything I wan't without any considerations of anything and definitely don't need any sob-story attached.

If there is no problem with anything actually, why can't we just keep buying because I liked that product? Do I need a ridiculous reason to buy this and that? Should I make a story of it how this clock belonged to someones grandmother and now it's mine and I will take care of it to the day I die? I would feel I've become sort of idiotic person and think my wife would find it strange too.

Whenever I read something like your post, I think there lies a problem somewhere, otherwise the article wouldn't been there in the first place. A problem is the underlying motive to write and discuss about anything, no?

It's sounds like you (the people, not you diwworkwear as a person) need some new ideology supporting consumerism so you can surpass some evil thoughts "maybe everything is not okay..."

am55: yes those cartoons are funny and meant to somehow show how ridiculous and old this line of thinking is. Well done. Is the joke actually that it is true or where is it? Could someone actually point otherwise?
Maybe I didn't communicate it well in the post. I was trying to say that your emotional connection with something is more important than the build quality. And if you really like something -- it emotionally resonates with you, it makes you excited, it gives you joy, it makes you satisfied or content -- then you're less likely to throw it away or replace it. When purchasing something, it's useful to think about the item's emotional resilience/ durability. I own some things that I have no desire to replace simply because they make me happy.

I don't think we share the same views on consumer culture. I don't think people have to stop consuming entirely. I also don't think capitalism is bad. I don't think you'll become alienated and hollow just because you like material objects. I also think it's fine for someone to fall out of love with an object (this idea doesn't mean you have to stick with something for the rest of your life). You can use something for a certain time and then move on. My post is really just a fleshed-out idea of The Contentment Thread.

I think you may have an overly cynical view of capitalism, consumerism, objects, social science, and other things. Perfectly fine if you think there are flaws in these things, but I also wonder what cynics use in their lives to find meaning and joy. If they've found something else that gives them joy, then great. But if you're cynical about everything, it's easy to be dissatisfied and unhappy in life. Cynicism has no redemptive qualities, it just tears down things and replaces them with nothing else. This reminds me of David Foster Wallace's view of post modernism.

 
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Sartorium

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I also wonder what cynics use in their lives to find meaning and joy.
I think the big one is talking down to people who are dumb enough to be happy
 

JJ Katz

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Maybe I didn't communicate it well in the post. I was trying to say that your emotional connection with something is more important than the build quality. And if you really like something -- it emotionally resonates with you, it makes you excited, it gives you joy, it makes you satisfied or content -- then you're less likely to throw it away or replace it. When purchasing something, it's useful to think about the item's emotional resilience/ durability. I own some things that I have no desire to replace simply because they make me happy.

I don't think we share the same views on consumer culture. I don't think people have to stop consuming entirely. I also don't think capitalism is bad. I don't think you'll become alienated and hollow just because you like material objects. I also think it's fine for someone to fall out of love with an object (this idea doesn't mean you have to stick with something for the rest of your life). You can use something for a certain time and then move on. My post is really just a fleshed-out idea of The Contentment Thread.

I think you may have an overly cynical view of capitalism, consumerism, objects, social science, and other things. Perfectly fine if you think there are flaws in these things, but I also wonder what cynics use in their lives to find meaning and joy. If they've found something else that gives them joy, then great. But if you're cynical about everything, it's easy to be dissatisfied and unhappy in life. Cynicism has no redemptive qualities, it just tears down things and replaces them with nothing else. This reminds me of David Foster Wallace's view of post modernism.

It was pretty clear actually.
 

WayneLyndon

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@dieworkwear thanks for the thoughtful response. I'm not getting uptight because of the conversation (others may), but because of I have to type with my bad english.

Heh, I'm not a cynic -far from it. I think cynicism as the weakest worldview, a cowards view. Cowardness to confront the world. It's for some who are too afraid to show and feel emotions. I buy stuff if I like it, I don't need an ideology to hide my feelings. Which is how I perceived your original point - needing a new reason to buy.

Which can sound cynical as we buy everything all the time.

I for one do not think we should stop consuming. I don't think we can and our whole existence is now based on growing markets and consuming stuff daily. Like groceries. And socks.

But every time is see the word 'ecology' or 'sustainability' being used I would like to see some serious thinking, not some cheap ideology hiding as new possibility to buy and sell products. I see those two terms usually worthless in this complex world and totally misused. Regarding those two terms I could say I'm very cynical. Constantly growing market + sustainability doesn't work as math - the emissions will keep adding because the growth itself.

I don't see how capitalism = market. I don't think so. Capitalism seem to be a phenomenon which makes you play the game and forget yourself. That was my reference between American Psycho and that YouTube-influencer. It is incredibly creepy to notice similarity of that movie from 1990s depicting that psycho and then see the point professional career has evolved. Your whole existence and life is revolving around your work and how you keep your body healthy and fit and free of sickness so you can keep going at it. Every god damn meal is being calculated and stupid workout registered.

For me at least, it is not a bit surprising when those YouTube-fellas after couple of years post that first "I've seen a therapist for a while now"-post. Or anyone in field which is about managing him or herself constantly. Here one could use a quotation of Giddens how it was seen coming already decades ago.

I don't think you'd come alienated because you like or buy stuff. I think you become alienated when you become cynical and start to associating collecting as your personal worth and making connections between collecting endlessly stuff because of their perceived technical qualities and removing your true feelings from them. At that point you may need or want a another 'reason' to keep buying, you know a reason to justify again another watch, or pair of shoes, or a car. Keep the game going.

That's the point where the terms 'ecology' and 'sustainability' goes out of the window - when you add constantly growing markets + constantly growing register of wants and needs over that market.

I actually feel this is where 'men', even many here in StyleForum could learn something from women, who often times are labeled a bit simple or bimbos because of buying something without looking at the fabrics, the mills where the fabric was made etc.

I would actually make a case of drawing a line. In one end you got, by saying sovinisticly, bimbos buying without thinking. In a bit of right from the center line you got this StyFo-guys pondering handstitching, different mills, working buttonholes, canvassing-options, using words like 'artisanal' and so on. In the end of that line you find the fella from American Psycho, who's out of touch of all his inner feelings.

That's why dislike and see any cynicism as a weakness. I understand that for some "collecting as a passion" can be loved hobby, fine. But there's a line there somewhere to be crossed where you stop seeing the forest from the trees.
 
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SimonC

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I consume to forget how meaningless all of it is in the end. Some people have kids, some climb mountains or travel the World to stare at coral fish. I buy accessories, this is my 'noise of life' to drown out any thoughts...
I consume because I have kids, so I have no time to climb mountains but can readily instakop new jawnz from my iPhone whilst dealing with domestic drama...
 

hoodog

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I consume because I have kids, so I have no time to climb mountains but can readily instakop new jawnz from my iPhone whilst dealing with domestic drama...
This. Exactly this. Buying jawnz to escape the daily struggles of family life. It's a "fix".
 

mossrockss

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This. Exactly this. Buying jawnz to escape the daily struggles of family life. It's a "fix".
Several years ago I told my brother that I wanted my clothing hobby to be somehow productive rather than just a thing I spend money on. That's when I started putting more effort into blogging and is part of why I do it to this day.
But I have limited funds! And my clothing interest has always been to build a wardrobe that will last me—old-fashioned #menswear c.2012 philosophy, I know—so I find it tough to "compete" in the Instagram world where it seems people are buying new things constantly (in reality, it's just my own lack of time commitment to creatively thinking of different ways to engage, blah blah).
But anyway, that kind of illuminates the consumption-oriented default mindset. Gotta be new; gotta be fresh; gotta be different. Same 4 blazers worn in rotation with a small assortment of OCBDs/cutaway collar shirts and 3 pairs of suede shoes? Ehh… next.
 

dieworkwear

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Several years ago I told my brother that I wanted my clothing hobby to be somehow productive rather than just a thing I spend money on. That's when I started putting more effort into blogging and is part of why I do it to this day.
But I have limited funds! And my clothing interest has always been to build a wardrobe that will last me—old-fashioned #menswear c.2012 philosophy, I know—so I find it tough to "compete" in the Instagram world where it seems people are buying new things constantly (in reality, it's just my own lack of time commitment to creatively thinking of different ways to engage, blah blah).
But anyway, that kind of illuminates the consumption-oriented default mindset. Gotta be new; gotta be fresh; gotta be different. Same 4 blazers worn in rotation with a small assortment of OCBDs/cutaway collar shirts and 3 pairs of suede shoes? Ehh… next.
Vox rarely shops and has been mostly wearing the same 800 suits
 

Thin White Duke

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Vox rarely shops and has been mostly wearing the same 800 suits
Yeah but unless I’m missing something (probably - I’m not on Instagram!) he rarely posts selfies and only updates his blog about once every six weeks.
There you go Mossy, just adopt a ‘leave them wanting more’ approach and your four blazers will remain relevant till doomsday!
 

DavidLane

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I really got caught up in consuming when buying accessories, ties, and pocket squares and especially when they were on sale. I have piles of them and really only wear 3-4 of each with any regularity, if at all. They were a quick and "cheap" way to get something new, and I found I put less thought into buying them, and pissed away a lot of money trying to keep up.

Recently, I found myself falling into the same trap trying to add some more casual pieces. For the first time in a while I am watching for new releases (RRL) and getting excited about buying a new shirt or coat. Which lead, once again to chasing sales and looking for deals. I bought a few pieces, which I do like, before I caught myself, but time will tell how much staying power they really have.

For me, this is where the problem lies. It's all too fast. I see it, I like, I buy it and have it in a few days. I don't have time to marinate in it. I know I will have stuff in my closet that just doesn't get worn. I think that is the advantage to getting clothes made. You have so much time to think about it beforehand.

So this summer I am (trying) to take a step back from consuming to focus on pieces I already own, and trying to find new ways of wearing them. It really has been a nice challenge. Plus it reminded me of my favorite part about this whole silly clothing obsession.

I really do enjoy and look forward to wearing things I already have. In particular tweeds.

There is nothing like pulling a tweed jacket out from the back of the closet. And for me, the newer the tweed is, the less excited I am about it. It’s the older more broken in one’s I look forward to the most. The addition of something new usually quells the want/need to consume, but nothing beats those old one's, those are the best. They already have enough “dings” (a stain here, a pull there) on them to be a bit less precious. Cigar and fire pit tweeds.

I am sure I will end up buying something else, but for now at least I am enjoying what I have.

-DL
 

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