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masshi

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cp's simply aren't made as well as they used to be

i think that's really all there is to it


and while better craftsmanship and materials are always nice, are people really buying into this brand for its "quality", anyway?

don't think i'm speaking for just myself when i say that the silhouettes/overall looks are 95%+ of the reasoning for purchase
 
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sussi

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And @masshi got the point. The thing is that CP is way more popular and mainstream than it was 4-5 years ago. They probably make 10x more shoes now and prices are higher than they ere 5 years ago, but quality went down with higher production quantities. All that are facts. It just seems that they were not able to find more shops with same quality standards to produce more pairs, so they just got the best what they could get, but it is not on pair with what they had 5 years ago.
 

austinpigalle

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And @masshi got the point. The thing is that CP is way more popular and mainstream than it was 4-5 years ago. They probably make 10x more shoes now and prices are higher than they ere 5 years ago, but quality went down with higher production quantities. All that are facts. It just seems that they were not able to find more shops with same quality standards to produce more pairs, so they just got the best what they could get, but it is not on pair with what they had 5 years ago.
I'm sure CP is producing far more shoes today than they were 5 years ago. With that said, I'm curious how many they actually produce (both of very popular styles like white Achilles lows, and then for more seasonal colors). It would also be interesting to know how many pairs a retailer like Mr. P orders, and how many they sell a day... Obviously they're expensive shoes, and they're selling to a niche market, but there are still thousands of pairs out there.
 

Grolubao

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I'm sure CP is producing far more shoes today than they were 5 years ago. With that said, I'm curious how many they actually produce (both of very popular styles like white Achilles lows, and then for more seasonal colors). It would also be interesting to know how many pairs a retailer like Mr. P orders, and how many they sell a day... Obviously they're expensive shoes, and they're selling to a niche market, but there are still thousands of pairs out there.
That's a good point. The CP suede I've bought have been impeccable in terms of quality, it was only the achilles low that were shit
 

Viral

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And @masshi got the point. The thing is that CP is way more popular and mainstream than it was 4-5 years ago. They probably make 10x more shoes now and prices are higher than they ere 5 years ago, but quality went down with higher production quantities. All that are facts. It just seems that they were not able to find more shops with same quality standards to produce more pairs, so they just got the best what they could get, but it is not on pair with what they had 5 years ago.
any data on how quality has suffered? How do you know this for a "fact"? And please don't say you can "tell by looking at them" etc - how about some real facts?
 

Grolubao

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any data on how quality has suffered? How do you know this for a "fact"? And please don't say you can "tell by looking at them" etc - how about some real facts?
Well, from the 3 pairs I've looked (you could go a bit being in the thread) they all had flaws that shouldn't be allowed in a luxury sneaker. It's a small sample set, but cannot bet coincidence
 

sussi

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any data on how quality has suffered? How do you know this for a "fact"? And please don't say you can "tell by looking at them" etc - how about some real facts?
I am not here to argue, but I have been buying them for last 5 years and I still do and you can see leather is thinner now than it was before, it creases different way than on older pairs etc.(it is like comparing new white AF1 to white AF1 from 20 years ago when they used way better leather and produced waaay less pairs, but quality difference in CP is not that huge than in AF1, just giving you something as comparison) I guess I can not prove that or get some confirmed information black on white. But it is just a fact when you get thru so many pairs and you wear them a lot you notice what has changed. You can spot more glue stains or dirty stains on a new pair etc. Just got a new pair of white achilles and white bballs on sale a few weeks ago (I realised that you can always get them with deep discount in sale season, so I just get new white pair of bballs and achilles every year). At the end I don't care that much about a little lower "quality" now because I buy these sneakers for the look. They are the cleanest white sneakers on the market and I love how they look so I will not cry if quality drops because production is 10x or more of what it was 5 years ago. I have no plan to stop buying the achilles and bballs until they really give me reason for that, but I am without any doubt saying that quality that you get now is not the same to what you got 5 years ago and that is unfortunately a fact.
 

MichaelYuen

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I have worked around 10 years in e-commerce and part of my work is dealing with fraud. I am quite an experinced fraud detector, and because of certain reasons, I am a very detail oriented person. So instead of doing something I should be doing, I have been comparing these two shoes and found out few reasons that are a tell that ones I received from Caliroots are fakes. Maybe I'll write more about it when I have more time, but here is an easy tell:

When they produce the cheap knockoff, the cut corners because their point is not to make exact copies, they just want to make best they can with as little time as needed. That means the differences are easier found in places that are not fully visible.

In genuine Achilles Low, there is an "unnescessary" detail on the tongue of the shoe. The stitching is a little bit rounded, like there was a dent in it. This detail is not present in fakes, the stitching is straight (and if you start counting, you can see that the sitching in general is lazier, with less stitches per cm), as you can see in this comparison picture:View attachment 1455123

So yes, Caliroots sent me fakes.
Purchased my first pair of CP's last month and the tongue stitching is the same as your new pair. I then when and checked out pic's of other CP's from the founder's Instagram, Rose Anvil and some Instagram pics and all of the current videos/pics shared which had the new stitching. Just an fyi.

Looking forward to get a pair of Artisan Lab's. There's a pre-order waitlist for the coming batch 9 of shoes. Still haven't gotten the invite link yet.

Grulubao - You mentioned you had a pair of CP's suedes which you felt the quality of the shoe was better. Mind sharing which model?

I'm looking to get a pair of Derby's, Penny Loafers, Chukkas or Slip-On's. Wondering if the sizing is the same as what I'm wearing on the Achilles?

Cheers.
 

Grolubao

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Purchased my first pair of CP's last month and the tongue stitching is the same as your new pair. I then when and checked out pic's of other CP's from the founder's Instagram, Rose Anvil and some Instagram pics and all of the current videos/pics shared which had the new stitching. Just an fyi.

Looking forward to get a pair of Artisan Lab's. There's a pre-order waitlist for the coming batch 9 of shoes. Still haven't gotten the invite link yet.

Grulubao - You mentioned you had a pair of CP's suedes which you felt the quality of the shoe was better. Mind sharing which model?

I'm looking to get a pair of Derby's, Penny Loafers, Chukkas or Slip-On's. Wondering if the sizing is the same as what I'm wearing on the Achilles?

Cheers.
Sure thing. This was the model:
1599730842935.png



You will not be disappointed with the Artisan Labs they are better quality and and 1/3 of the price. Toe box is slightly larger
 

SimModa

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At the end I don't care that much about a little lower "quality" now because I buy these sneakers for the look. They are the cleanest white sneakers on the market and I love how they look so I will not cry if quality drops because production is 10x or more of what it was 5 years ago
don’t think i'm speaking for just myself when i say that the silhouettes/overall looks are 95%+ of the reasoning for purchase
This. The sleek silhouette is the only reason I went for the Achilles low and soon enough the white BBalls. I’ve never paid retail so I’m content with my pairs. 3-4x a year there’s huge sales so we can get them in the low $300s if not mid to low $200s.

Not sure when this ‘quality drop’ happened but people were saying the same thing 3-4 years ago when I got my first pairs of CPs. Just buy them on sale and decide if you want to return them once you get them in hand. These are white sneakers from a hyped brand and end of the day these will get scuffed and abused. Some of these alleged flaws aren’t even things that look visible on a quick glance or even structurally debilitating. idk how much further in quality you can go vs. some clear differences in handmade leather shoes or loafers.

If someone has alternatives with just as slim of a fit and significantly more affordable, I’m all for it. I just think we have to really consider what CP has become today.
 

Jmr928

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The discussion of QC drop off as companies grow is always an interesting one. On the other side of the forum it was Allen Edmonds - They did an interview and confirmed their QC failure rate hasn't changed but they are putting more shoes out. If you assume that there is a QC failure of say 1% - As the company expands and grows the 1% could well stay the same but you'd have a larger raw number of "bad" shoes in the wild. Add in internet forums where people who are unhappy go to post and it looks like it's even bigger than that. How many random people who go buy a shoe at Neiman or Nordstrom decide "You know what - I really like this shoe. I wonder if there is a forum where I can go online and tell a bunch of strangers how great it is?" As opposed to people who took the time and watched a bunch of youtube videos, read blogs and looked for the best shoe and sizing information, jumped on the forums and built the shoe up in their head. If they get something and it doesn't live up to their expectations they built up, they post asking about it. You see the "bad" shoes - even if it's a small percentage or there is nothing really wrong with it. The solution for many on the other side with Allen Edmonds is watch for the sales and it's still a pretty good value. CP, frankly, was never about a value proposition but if you get them on sale it can still be a "deal." It's a luxury good. If you want a value option for a minimalist sneaker there are other options out there albeit most of the time with trade offs. If you want the silhouette, the gold numbers or the "original" you can get a CP.
 

bry2000

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This ^.

Maybe I have been extremely lucky, but I have owned many pairs of CPs since I bought my first pair in the mid 2000s. I have not noticed any change in quality or to quality control at all. I have not gotten a bad pair yet.
 

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