The official CELINE thread

[GG Allin]

Well, having seen the bulk of the Fall 21 collections to date, I'm even more convinced that this thread is death's antechamber. Sorry my friends.

Raf is still batting for you with his new venture at Prada - although there are plenty of slouchy silhouettes there too. Oh, and Owens also mixes up the skinny with the sloppy. Other than that, there's pretty much only Undercover keeping it fully trim (although I have to say I rather liked the collection all the same).

Pretty much everywhere else is draped in asphyxiating quantities of loose fabric. But I guess you can take some solace in the fact that anything this fashionable can only become unfashionable again soon.

Still, I guess there's hope; not all the votes are in yet.

I don't disagree with this at all. I've looked at a couple collections, and really didn't care for them in teh slightest. However, I'm not really into fashion, so it's hard for me to judge them.

Someone started a thread a couple of days ago to discuss Raf's first collection at Prada. Exactly one person replied, and I'm pretty sure the thread is heading to an early grave. I really wanted to say something, especially since on paper Raf Simons taking over at Prada should be really thrilling--but to me the looks just looked like typical fashion stuff you'd see at Prada, Galliano Margiela, stuff like that.

I have to confess that I've never really understood these runway collections that consist of clothes that aren't really intended to be worn. Rick Owens would be an extreme example, but I can't really see people walking around with those rolled up blazer sleeves over the bicep that Raf had his runways sporting. I don't know; maybe that is the new thing?

 

[thorns]

I acknowledge that there is a change, but a big part of my heart is still stuck in the 2010s, and would probably prefer tennis sneakers with non-cropped pants the most.

 

[VinceCompost]

I don't disagree with this at all. I've looked at a couple collections, and really didn't care for them in teh slightest. However, I'm not really into fashion, so it's hard for me to judge them.

Someone started a thread a couple of days ago to discuss Raf's first collection at Prada. Exactly one person replied, and I'm pretty sure the thread is heading to an early grave. I really wanted to say something, especially since on paper Raf Simons taking over at Prada should be really thrilling--but to me the looks just looked like typical fashion stuff you'd see at Prada, Galliano Margiela, stuff like that.

I have to confess that I've never really understood these runway collections that consist of clothes that aren't really intended to be worn. Rick Owens would be an extreme example, but I can't really see people walking around with those rolled up blazer sleeves over the bicep that Raf had his runways sporting. I don't know; maybe that is the new thing?

I think it's important to understand that the purpose of runways shows is not in any way similar to, say, a lookbook or a campaign, much less in-store merchandising. I.e. runways aren't meant for the people who wear the clothes*. They're for the people who buy them wholesale and/or who write about them. And in order to be successful in this area you need to give people novelty. Tasteful fits might sell to the man in the street, but they don't garner press inches.

If you need confirmation of this, take a look at someone like Craig Green. Most of his runway looks would be unwearable by anyone, ever. But the items you'll find by Green on the racks are mostly pretty pedestrian pieces of workwear.

*Who knows though, this may change now that they aren't actually runways shows at all, but videos that can be watched by everyone.

 

[thorns]

I have to confess that I've never really understood these runway collections that consist of clothes that aren't really intended to be worn.

I've considered this a lot, and I think my answer for this is how the medium has impacted and put a constraint on the message. Traditionally, runway shows are supposed to be dramatic and theatrical and different than ready-to-wear. People have been gatekeeping this traditionalist ideology so Hedi is often attacked for presenting ready-to-wear on runway. They say things like how it is "boring" and "derivative". I see those arguments against Hedi similar to arguments against speaking movies since silent movies were established as the norm. I feel like times change, and people should adapt and be able to see how runway styling doesn't always need to be so over the top. Hedi's runway can be over the top for my more conservative sensibilities already.

Someone started a thread a couple of days ago to discuss Raf's first collection at Prada. Exactly one person replied, and I'm pretty sure the thread is heading to an early grave.

He's a great example of how the authorities are the ones disconnected and out of touch. His work at Calvin Klein was praised by fashion authorities, but look at what happened.

 

[RedVelvetWounds]

I don't disagree with this at all. I've looked at a couple collections, and really didn't care for them in teh slightest. However, I'm not really into fashion, so it's hard for me to judge them.

Someone started a thread a couple of days ago to discuss Raf's first collection at Prada. Exactly one person replied, and I'm pretty sure the thread is heading to an early grave. I really wanted to say something, especially since on paper Raf Simons taking over at Prada should be really thrilling--but to me the looks just looked like typical fashion stuff you'd see at Prada, Galliano Margiela, stuff like that.

I have to confess that I've never really understood these runway collections that consist of clothes that aren't really intended to be worn. Rick Owens would be an extreme example, but I can't really see people walking around with those rolled up blazer sleeves over the bicep that Raf had his runways sporting. I don't know; maybe that is the new thing?

In the case of Rick Owens some of his most popular items right now are the kiss boots and their variations. To the average person they seem unwearable as well but those things sell out crazy fast and the resell is usually even crazier. Even Rick himself wears them often, so maybe that's the secret.

 

[thorns]

They're for the people who buy them wholesale and/or who write about them. And in order to be successful in this area you need to give people novelty. Tasteful fits might sell to the man in the street, but they don't garner press inches.

I wonder what they're going to do since they're losing influence. Their words really carry little weight nowadays.

 

[VinceCompost]

I wonder what they're going to do since they're losing influence. Their words really carry little weight nowadays.

Evidence?

 

[thorns]

Is the Celebrity Editor Becoming Extinct? (Published 2019)

Carine Roitfeld thinks so: “Fashion has finished that chapter.”

www.nytimes.com

Do people buy magazines to look at the latest fashion anymore let alone care about what these experts have to say? It's all about Instagram influencers nowadays. That's the feeling I get. That's why I think so many brands tapped into Blackpink and gifting items to Instagramers, and asking them to feature the items in posts.

The 1980s and early ’90s witnessed the advent of the celebrity editor, Anna Wintour of Vogue and Franca Sozzani of Italian Vogue among them. Today they are all but extinct, much of their authority ceded to cadres of chattering influencers.

“On Instagram, these people say what they want, show what they want, without any culture or judgment,” Ms. Roitfeld said. They are far too busy airing platitudes that, she said, “travel like fire on the web.”

“There will be no more Francas, no more Annas,” she said with stony finality. “Fashion has finished that chapter.”

I'm curious if you have evidence that their voice still matters.

 

[thorns]

Another example I can think of are Vivian Westwood pearl necklaces for men. That **** swept like a wildfire, and it felt like it started with the TikTokers.

Speaking about how men, especially younger men, are more and more open to androgyny, it sees like more and more are open to wearing pearl necklaces like ss20:
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It just carries too much baggage for me, and I can't escape the double entendre meaning behind a pearl necklace to rock one. Hedi was definitely ahead of the curve a bit pushing pearl necklaces for men in June 2019.

Interesting article on Gen-Z: https://www.crfashionbook.com/fashion/a33482698/gen-z-vivienne-westwood-shopping-vintage/

Noen wearing the Celine pearl necklace here:
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Article: https://www.thefashionisto.com/photo-shoot/noen-eubanks-2020-the-face/

 

[VinceCompost]

I'm curious if you have evidence that their voice still matters.

None whatsoever. But I wasn't making a claim either way.

In any case I would include instagram etc. as part of the "press inches". Runway shows are there to create a little noise. Precisely where that noise reverberates is less important than the fact that that it does.

Also, while traditional fashion media likely is losing influence, I think it would be difficult to argue that Vogue etc. are dead. Less important doesn't mean not important.

 

[thorns]

I do feel like I'm part of the group that is between the old and new ideology around masculinity.

New idea is to call out toxic masculinity and blur the lines of gender. "Pearl necklaces can be worn by men too!"
Old idea is to set arbitrary boundaries between gender so that everything can be neatly defined as much as possible. Men had to be dominant and tough. "I *********** *****, you fat motherfucker, and give her a pearl necklace all over her neck."

I kind of prefer letting the girls keep the pearl necklaces like fw13.

 

[GG Allin]

In the case of Rick Owens some of his most popular items right now are the kiss boots and their variations. To the average person they seem unwearable as well but those things sell out crazy fast and the resell is usually even crazier. Even Rick himself wears them often, so maybe that's the secret.

They've probably been listening to a lot of this:

Spoiler

 

[RedVelvetWounds]

They've probably been listening to a lot of this:

Spoiler

Yeah, that's definitely who they got it from.

But these guys are just the cooler version.

 

[thorns]

"I love fashion."

 

[thorns]

I have no hate towards Rick stuff as long as it is congruent with the image the wearer is projecting. Wearing it to go grocery shopping just feels super weird for me.