The official CELINE thread

[kieran84]

I couldn't care less about all that, I'm just glad I can buy Hedi's designs and keep adding to my wardrobe. There's definitely a significant difference between Hedi's Saint Laurent and Celine, but the two still fit together very well.

Out of interest was monogram invented by LV? I know the Celine triomphe monogram dates back to at least the 90s and I think Hedi has done a good job updating it and bringing it back, even though it's not my thing. It's certainly nicer than LV anyway.

 

[thorns]

You could arguably say Hedi is more saint laurent at Celine than he was at SLP itself lol even the ads format are inspired by vintage saint laurent rive gauche

This is definitely fascinating so thanks for sharing. I was under the impression that Hedi was mining Celine's own archives of what they put out in the 70s. Perhaps Celine was riffing on Yves' work as their source material even back then.

Which makes the Celine project all the more absurd and out of place. It never was a couture house or major fashion auteur with a unique style. Chloé and Celine are more like an "affordable" Hermés with a younger and more feminine touch. Michael Kors gave it a strong ready to wear look: easy minimal shapes with emphasis on comfort and materials such as cashmere and leathers in neutral tones. That was the Celine toolkit until Hedi arrived.

I don't have any particularly strong feelings either way. Although the past is important for context and understanding the present, I don't feel like it should act as balls and chains in restricting what the future can be. Although Celine was a "budget" brand, I don't think that should limit Hedi's aspirations. I actually don't think Hedi changed the idea of having easy ready-to-wear pieces for Celine. Although Hedi might not be doing exactly neutral tones, there is an emphasis on warmer colour palettes.

I feel like you're downplaying other designers in favor of Hedi. I'm not personally a fan of her work. But you can't deny that her design language and sensibilities are literally the norm in today's fashion. Celine didn't need an overhaul and especially one that makes it look like an other brand. Phoebe tapped into the modern zeitgeist that's why other brands who capitalized on her style are dominating the market right now. To scrap all that and replace it with something that is not even generating profit makes Hedi look rather clueless and out of touch.

I won't deny that I'm viewing everything through a very biased perspective. However, any of Phoebe's work I've briefly seen through quick cursory google searches yielded extremely unflattering looks. What exactly is her design language and sensibilities that has now become the norm in today's fashion?

Nobody cares about vintage Celine logo or canvas, which is a riff on the LV monogram if we're being honest here.

I can see how since LV pioneered it, anyone else that follows is heavily inspired from the original. However, I'm not sure if I'm 100% for someone monopolizing a certain style just because they are the originators. I feel like healthy competition will ultimately help them grow and give consumers a better product. I can understand how someone who believes in "heritage" will only respect the ones who first created something. However, isn't innovation all really created by inspiration from something else? Now on more practical terms, I can see how nobody would care as much about the Celine monogram compared to the LV monogram. The LV monogram has more social value/reputation than Celine has. Hedi's Celine monogram, for practical intents and purposes, is basically a "new" creation in the eyes of most people.

As Jabbathecunt mentioned, it is really unfortunate that his SLP couture restoration project got interrupted. I also believe that he quit SLP because of something regarding L'Oréal beauty license. Maybe if everything went smoothly, saint laurent would be restored as a couture house with a strong perfume and cosmetics line in the image of Chanel and Dior today. Rightfully where it belongs.

I agree 100%. I feel like it would have been the perfect story if Hedi stayed at Saint Laurent so that his arc comes full circle to back to his origins. I would be curious what fragrances he would have released at Saint Laurent.

 

[puttysan]

celine shirts are greatr!

 

[SirGrotius]

Thorns and Deonfate et al have elevated the conversation this weekend. Kudos! Usually this thread dies down for a few days here and there before there's a spate of excitement about x topic, however, this was deeper and more thoroughly researched. Really enjoyed looking at those old YSL inspiration photos. The man was a genius.

 

[Deonfate]

This is definitely fascinating so thanks for sharing. I was under the impression that Hedi was mining Celine's own archives of what they put out in the 70s. Perhaps Celine was riffing on Yves' work as their source material even back then.


I don't have any particularly strong feelings either way. Although the past is important for context and understanding the present, I don't feel like it should act as balls and chains in restricting what the future can be. Although Celine was a "budget" brand, I don't think that should limit Hedi's aspirations. I actually don't think Hedi changed the idea of having easy ready-to-wear pieces for Celine. Although Hedi might not be doing exactly neutral tones, there is an emphasis on warmer colour palettes.


I won't deny that I'm viewing everything through a very biased perspective. However, any of Phoebe's work I've briefly seen through quick cursory google searches yielded extremely unflattering looks. What exactly is her design language and sensibilities that has now become the norm in today's fashion?


I can see how since LV pioneered it, anyone else that follows is heavily inspired from the original. However, I'm not sure if I'm 100% for someone monopolizing a certain style just because they are the originators. I feel like healthy competition will ultimately help them grow and give consumers a better product. I can understand how someone who believes in "heritage" will only respect the ones who first created something. However, isn't innovation all really created by inspiration from something else? Now on more practical terms, I can see how nobody would care as much about the Celine monogram compared to the LV monogram. The LV monogram has more social value/reputation than Celine has. Hedi's Celine monogram, for practical intents and purposes, is basically a "new" creation in the eyes of most people.


I agree 100%. I feel like it would have been the perfect story if Hedi stayed at Saint Laurent so that his arc comes full circle to back to his origins. I would be curious what fragrances he would have released at Saint Laurent.

I really can't word someone's design language rightfully, especially when I'm not really fond of them. However, Phoebe brought a sense of craftiness and rawness to an otherwise streamlined clean bourgeois look. The clothes have a drape to them that gives emphasis on the fabric and the wearer in general. There's also a subtle playfulness to it with some design details such as square toes or humongous bags. Just watch a Bottega Veneta show or Loewe or Givenchy under Claire and compare them to a Celine one, you'll feel the similarities and the styles presented at their core are practically the same. It is really mind-boggling for me to see it have this mainstream appeal, but the numbers and the streets don't lie. They're probably on to something just not for everyone on the face of the globe. And apparently we happen to be one of them.

Celine as a brand never really was a major fashion player until Michael Kors arrived. They've always made versions of popular items and aesthetics at the time. Whether it's the sellerie Hermés codes, Gucci bambous, LV monogram, YSL bohemian chic etc. Even compared to similar brand such as Chloé, it's like the older less cool sister. Phoebe arrived and gave it huge fashion caché that would sustain it for decades. It was really unnecessary to bring back those past things such the canvas, they have no real appeal in the public consciousness and they're embarrassing rip offs who were rightfully left behind.

Maybe deep down I'm rooting for Hedi to succeed. It's embarrassing to see someone trying so hard to force something that really have no purpose for existing, and at the expense for something much more modern. I bet LVMH are biting their fingers to not capitalise on the Phoebe wave, especially when they're the one that originated it. I feel there's huge amount of pressure on Slimane right now which prompted him to send the embarassing SS21 and the "monochrome" collection.

Deep down the rubble of modern Celine, here are some items that could be from my fantasy Hedi Celine:

This wool/cotton blend trench coat with tailleur sleeves and épaulettes. I think it might have a canvas construction inside. The slim silhouette is quintessential Hedi in a beautiful dark beige.

This charcoal striped wool suit with flare pants that don't look like they come from the John Travolta repertoire. Also the styling with the cashmere turtle neck is a nice node to a recurring Celine code.

Relaxed corporate tailoring with some drape.

This playful styling with classic Hedi pieces and some "conservative" dress codes. Also the more daring color palette and textures of FW19 (both men and women were a smashing success to me) were very fresh

This take on a hoodie sweater. The finishing and the cashmere material really elevates it to another level.

The old gaudy Mick Jagger rejects are really uncalled for and too fashion-y for mainstream appeal in my opinion.

 

[DJR]

Man. Totally insane what Celine employees have to go through to get a sales item. I thought Dior was bad... Sheesh.

Everyone here realizes how big Celine Box Bag was in China before Hedi? They still make it for that market (old one). It’s a big 4 for China status flash: LV, Chanel, Hermès, Celine.

 

[thorns]

I really can't word someone's design language rightfully, especially when I'm not really fond of them. However, Phoebe brought a sense of craftiness and rawness to an otherwise streamlined clean bourgeois look. The clothes have a drape to them that gives emphasis on the fabric and the wearer in general. There's also a subtle playfulness to it with some design details such as square toes or humongous bags.

It felt difficult judging Phoebe's work through runway since it is supposed to be theatrical, and I doubt most Philophiles wore the runway pieces. I watched this YouTube video and I think I get a better understanding of what Phoebe's appeal is. Although the video is obvious satire, I think there is some truth to it. It seems to be appealing to women who want this faux-carefree bohemian feeling. They want to look down-to-earth while they're anything but. I can understand why they would be turned off at Hedi's ironically more real down-to-earth approach.

Everyone here realizes how big Celine Box Bag was in China before Hedi? They still make it for that market (old one). It’s a big 4 for China status flash: LV, Chanel, Hermès, Celine.

Curious is you know how Hedi's Celine is being received in China. There seems to be a lot of backlash from the West, curious if the East is mirroring the same atmosphere.

 

[iv4me]

Feeling that hoodie for sure. @Deonfate have you or anyone else tried it on? Thoughts on fit, quality of cashmere vs other high end cashmere? Loro Piana etc?

 

[Malour]

It felt difficult judging Phoebe's work through runway since it is supposed to be theatrical, and I doubt most Philophiles wore the runway pieces. I watched this YouTube video and I think I get a better understanding of what Phoebe's appeal is. Although the video is obvious satire, I think there is some truth to it. It seems to be appealing to women who want this faux-carefree bohemian feeling. They want to look down-to-earth while they're anything but. I can understand why they would be turned off at Hedi's ironically more real down-to-earth approach.

I've always understood that Philo's designs were great for women above 35 (roughly) or just women in general who did not look like the kids Hedi uses for his runway shows. It was beautiful clothes that did not show the body, they were comfortable, and nicely crafted. There's a joke around that it was made for gallery owners and artsy people where I'm from.

It made women with a normal body type feel sexy and strong, and in these days I think that is great. I know some people tried to give Billie Eilish a rough week because she was spotted without her oversized hoodie, so I think Philo did an amazing job in the fight against body shaming.

 

[youwhat]

Man. Totally insane what Celine employees have to go through to get a sales item. I thought Dior was bad... Sheesh.

elaborate

 

[thorns]

I've always understood that Philo's designs were great for women above 35 (roughly) or just women in general who did not look like the kids Hedi uses for his runway shows. It was beautiful clothes that did not show the body, they were comfortable, and nicely crafted. There's a joke around that it was made for gallery owners and artsy people where I'm from.

It made women with a normal body type feel sexy and strong, and in these days I think that is great. I know some people tried to give Billie Eilish a rough week because she was spotted without her oversized hoodie, so I think Philo did an amazing job in the fight against body shaming.

I defer to your knowledge regarding what body type can still look good in Phoebe's designs, and I can totally agree that it is harder to look chic in Hedi's style if you're significantly obese. I get the criticism that "Hedi only designs for young people", since it is just sexier and sells better than featuring old people. However, I feel like Hedi's universe also fits in older men and women. They're just more restricted to less playful designs.

Big Yellow Taxi crooner Joni Mitchell, 71, has just been unveiled as the face of Saint Laurent's Music Project campaign; photographed by the label's creative director Hedi Slimane at Joni's Californian Bel Air home with her beloved guitar.

It comes two days after author Joan Didion, 80, was announced as Céline's front woman for its Spring 2015 campaign - to the jubilation of literary and fashion fans everywhere.

Media praised Phoebe's inclusivity for featuring Joan Didion, but you never really hear about Hedi featuring many older women back at Saint Laurent. Inclusivity just doesn't match the narrative that they have been pushing for when denigrating Hedi. In their eyes, Hedi is an out of touch misogynistic woman hater who doesn't design for real women, and they're desperate for everyone to believe it as well.

Many of his Celine looks would look nice on an older woman as well.

double-breasted striped wool jacket, cashmere turtleneck, striped wool pants and calf-skin ankle boots Celine by Hedi Slimane

Ultimately I think both styles can coexist, I just find myself gravitating more to Hedi. Looking at Phoebe's work makes me appreciate Hedi's work so much more.

 

[youwhat]

goes on about 'older' women.

proceeds to post 6 pics of one of the worlds most beautiful women.

 

[thorns]

I agree Angelina Jolie still looks great at 45, especially when in Hedi.

 

[SirGrotius]

Great photos and posts above. As an older gentleman (41!!), I have zero qualms rocking out to Celine. In fact, it's a little more natural than SLP, although SLP blazers etc and most knits are still no brainers. Celine has stronger tailoring right now, though. Obviously, I'm not going to be delving into the monochrome collection, although that clean tan hoodie above looks gorgeous for layering under denim/leather on the weekends. Too bad it doesn't seem to be available in the US collection.

 

[Randeep]

Man. Totally insane what Celine employees have to go through to get a sales item. I thought Dior was bad... Sheesh.

What a totally pointless musing without further elaboration, right up there with "I tried the most expensive piece in the collection" and then not divulging the price... go on - spill the beans - I'm on tenterhooks here

...

Although the video is obvious satire, I think there is some truth to it. It seems to be appealing to women who want this faux-carefree bohemian feeling. They want to look down-to-earth while they're anything but. I can understand why they would be turned off at Hedi's ironically more real down-to-earth approach.


...

lol - this video and your summation was both amusing and accurate.