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The official CELINE thread

Jabbathecunt

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I realize that it might not make much sense when I talk about "batch codes". So for LVMH, there is an easy way to tell when the fragrance is made, its "batch code" and the fragrance's "formula code". The formula code is supposed to indicate a change in the formula...however in my experience the fragrance can have the same formula code despite smelling different so it isn't a 100% sure indicator, but it is a useful tool. The reverse could be true as in some regions might have a different regulation on which UV filters are able to be used. I remember the Dior Homme in Japan had a different formula code because of a different UV filter, but it smelled the same.

Information on batch code



View attachment 1596205



Example of this change in action. Here is an early bottle of Dior Homme produced in 2005.
View attachment 1596207
Dior HOMME, early bottle,
batch 5L01, formula 1704/A

View attachment 1596208
A rare alternate early version, listing Benzophenone
(an UV-rays blocker), formula 01792/A

View attachment 1596209
DIOR HOMME
differences between 2008 (01704/A) and 2013 (05434/A)

Batch codes and formula codes of the Celine bottles/samples made in 2019:


Saint-Germain-des-Prés
  • 9M01 - December 2019
    • 13941/A
La Peau Nue
  • 9M01 - December 2019
    • 13942/A
Cologne Française
  • 9L01 - November 2019
    • 13943/A
Dans Paris
  • 9M01 - December 2019
    • 13944/A
Eau de Californie
  • 9L01 - November 2019
    • 13945/A
Black Tie
  • 9G01E - July 2019
    • 13962/A
  • 9M01 - December 2019
    • 13962/A
Parade
  • 9M02 - December 2019
    • 14067/A
Reptile
  • 9M01 - December 2019
    • 14288/A
Nightclubbing
  • 9G01E - July 2019
    • 14289/A
  • 9M01 - December 2019
    • 14289/A

The batch code and formula code is on the bottle of the cardboard box. The batch code can also be found on the sticker on the bottom of the bottle, but not the formula code.
Does this mean that my Nightclubbing is a different formulation? This could be the reason I'm not smelling the cigarette odor. Also thank you for posting this, I will definitely be more selective when purchasing replacements of my fragrances.
 

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thorns

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Does this mean that my Nightclubbing is a different formulation? This could be the reason I'm not smelling the cigarette odor. Also thank you for posting this, I will definitely be more selective when purchasing replacements of my fragrances.
You have a November 2019 batch with the same formula code as the others I have seen. I do think "cigarette" is more like a very artistic interpretation using ingredients used in perfumery. It doesn't capture the true fully dangerous aspects from a cigarette. I feel like it is as close as you can get, without getting cancer, and still fitting into the whole Haute Parfumerie idea. If it was just a very raw depiction of cigarette smoke it immediately loses a lot of elegance. I see it as a very elegant artistic interpretation of how cigarette smoke can be.

I was initially disappointed that it didn't smell "real" enough, but the more I smell it the more addictive it feels.

HS: Fifteen years later, with hundreds of collections around and almost systematically a focus on the next single material available, from countless oud woods to vetiver, I felt this direction had become a bit generic. There was a need to change tune and explore ethereal and sophisticated constructions, strictly emotional, multifaceted narrative perfumes. The Celine collection of Haute Parfumerie is constantly playing with trompe l’oeil. It is ineffable, sometimes esoteric. It reflects our complexity and our paradoxes.
 

SirGrotius

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I wore Dior Homme today and quite liked it. For some reason, it seems to fall out of the rotation, however, it's a pleasant surprise, and somehow more tailored in feel than even Black Tie for me.
 

SirGrotius

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I noticed on the women's site a surfeit of bags. I wonder how LVMH handles cannablization of their LV cash cow? Maybe that's a stretch to think that Celine would have any impact on LV (1-2%?), but if one were to project out the brand, there does seem some overlap and if growth (finally) continues it could be a slight business question. I suppose this is my way of asking Thorns what's the difference between the LV bag girl and the Celine bag girl (spoiler: a lot).
 

Jabbathecunt

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You have a November 2019 batch with the same formula code as the others I have seen. I do think "cigarette" is more like a very artistic interpretation using ingredients used in perfumery. It doesn't capture the true fully dangerous aspects from a cigarette. I feel like it is as close as you can get, without getting cancer, and still fitting into the whole Haute Parfumerie idea. If it was just a very raw depiction of cigarette smoke it immediately loses a lot of elegance. I see it as a very elegant artistic interpretation of how cigarette smoke can be.

I was initially disappointed that it didn't smell "real" enough, but the more I smell it the more addictive it feels.
I don't like cigarette smell
 

Jabbathecunt

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I noticed on the women's site a surfeit of bags. I wonder how LVMH handles cannablization of their LV cash cow? Maybe that's a stretch to think that Celine would have any impact on LV (1-2%?), but if one were to project out the brand, there does seem some overlap and if growth (finally) continues it could be a slight business question. I suppose this is my way of asking Thorns what's the difference between the LV bag girl and the Celine bag girl (spoiler: a lot).
I feel like LV is a starter foray into luxury whereas Celine is an acquired taste, two completely different markets. I never got the appeal of LV or why anybody thought of it as a status symbol. I get that Marc Jacobs had a cult following and that is a huge reason LV is what it is today but it always seemed tacky to me.
 
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Adamdraps

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I feel like LV is a starter foray into luxury whereas Celine is an acquired taste, two completely different markets. I never got the appeal of LV or why anybody thought of it as a status symbol. I get that Marc Jacobs had a cult following and that is a huge reason LV is what it is today but it always seemed tacky to me.

Middle class want to be rich and famous. Having LV all over a big hand bag for all to see makes them feel this way.
 

Jabbathecunt

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Middle class want to be rich and famous. Having LV all over a big hand bag for all to see makes them feel this way.
I feel more like all these people watched Sex and The City and needed an identity. I've noticed that life imitates art copiously more frequently than art imitates life. Poor people probably want to feel rich more so than the middle class. Middle class people are happy to shop at Target.
 

thorns

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I wore Dior Homme today and quite liked it. For some reason, it seems to fall out of the rotation, however, it's a pleasant surprise, and somehow more tailored in feel than even Black Tie for me.
1619157369841.png

I feel like Dior Homme is more masculine than the Celine line. There's a lot of freshness and masculine elements thrown into Dior Homme to appeal to a market that is accustomed to these certain tropes in masculine perfumery. The notes feel quite distinct with one another.

1619157562853.png

Since Dior Homme is technically in the prestige designer tier, a better comparison between the exclusive niche tier fragrances would be Eau Noire and Black Tie. The only way I would recommend someone trying Eau Noire is buying a sample online first, as it is more polarizing and arrogant than Black Tie.
Eau Noire is an evening scent, developed to harmonize with the black tie world of Dior Homme. "L'Eau Noire was made to measure from the beginning," Hedi explained. "It allowed me to trade in what I'd personally been wearing since the age of 11.
I feel like Eau Noire is direct, punchy, and there is an emphasis on raw materials. They even coloured the fragrance green to give off that visual impression of there being full of natural components. I can smell the white thyme leaves, clary sage, lavender, cedar, immortelle, and vanilla. The herbs impart a lot of freshness in the opening which helps lean the scent masculine. It feels similar to Black Tie when it finally dries down.
HS: I presume it was a different time. When I created the cologne collection at Dior in 2004, working with short and simple compositions and raw materials felt completely new. It was also one of the first “collections” created for a luxury house.
Fifteen years later, with hundreds of collections around and almost systematically a focus on the next single material available, from countless oud woods to vetiver, I felt this direction had become a bit generic. There was a need to change tune and explore ethereal and sophisticated constructions, strictly emotional, multifaceted narrative perfumes. The Celine collection of Haute Parfumerie is constantly playing with trompe l’oeil. It is ineffable, sometimes esoteric. It reflects our complexity and our paradoxes.
1619159224738.png

Black Tie feels more blended together and the different notes aren't as distinct from one another. Rather than having the individual ingredients take the spotlight, I experience more of an overall vibe/glow. There is less of a concern to let people know there are different ingredients in the fragrance. With less of an emphasis on the fragrance's individual components, there is an opportunity to experience the emotional narrative more. It definitely feels like a different approach to perfumery. Also it feels a lot more wearable than Eau Noire.

1619159739546.png

Now dissecting the scent idea, it is interesting that this is how Hedi envisions a Black Tie scent to look like ever since his Dior years. The scent's inspiration is from Caron's Pour un Homme de Caron. It smells mainly of lavender, vanilla, and musk.

Pour Un Homme de Caron is often regarded as one of the first fragrance marketed towards men. It was released in 1934 based on a simple yet effective lavender and vanilla accord over a woody and amber base. It was worn by French stars and politicians including Serge Gainsbourg, Jonny Hallyday, François Mitterrand and Nicolas Sarkozy. However, it was a known favourite of James Dean.
It is quite a classical composition, so I do wonder if that helps play into the Black Tie idea. Hedi does add darker elements to Caron's structure, so I do think that gives it more of a serious feeling.

Interestingly, it appeared most popular among women not solely as something that they would wear but a fragrance they’d find attractive on a man. The lavender notes received the most comments and those who picked up on the vanilla seemed to love it.
There's something quite sexy and alluring about vanilla. It is interesting that Hedi wants vanilla in his Black Tie DNA. It gives off an inviting feeling for me. In both Eau Noire and Black Tie, the vanilla is grounded by being paired with something darker feeling to impart the feeling of being serious while still approachable.

Personally, I don't really see this scent idea as something restricted to Black Tie events, but it does give off a serious but still approachable feeling. I think it would fit a darker look that features tailoring somewhere in the outfit. I'm going to post some pictures of looks that I think would match the Black Tie fragrance despite not being Black Tie appropriate.

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SirGrotius

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Thorns is Cologne Royale by Dior an Hedi-era fragrance? (I'm wearing it today.) I don't get the sense that it is, as it's a bit too citrusy and bright for his patois and it garners a lot of compliments akin to the mass-appeal of a Creed Aventus.
 

thorns

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Thorns is Cologne Royale by Dior an Hedi-era fragrance? (I'm wearing it today.) I don't get the sense that it is, as it's a bit too citrusy and bright for his patois and it garners a lot of compliments akin to the mass-appeal of a Creed Aventus.
1619199477037.jpeg

Hedi only released 3 fragrances in the now Maison Christian Dior line: Eau Noire, Cologne Blanche, and Bois d’Argent. Cologne Blanche got discontinued. Eau Noire got tweaked a bit and became limited distribution. Bois d’Argent got tweaked and is still part of their lineup. I will test the current version of Bois d’Argent on skin to see how it differs from the original in the next couple of days and report back.

For the prestige tier, he released Dior Homme,
1619199560462.jpeg

Dior Homme Cologne (my speculation),
1619199623108.jpeg

and Fahrenheit 32.
1619199672871.jpeg

Dior Homme Intense and Eau Sauvage Fraicheur Cuir were also launched in 2007 which suggests that Hedi might have had to approve of it late 2006 and early 2007 before he left Dior Homme, but I haven’t smelled either to see if it reflects his style. Dior Homme got tweaked and is now called Dior Homme Original and also limited distribution. Dior Homme Cologne got discontinued and replaced with a new fragrance with the same name in a white bottle. Fahrenheit 32 and Eau Sauvage Fraicheur Cuir got discontinued. Dior Homme Intense got tweaked and is still available in most places, but never where I’ve been.

Now with all that said, it has only ever been confirmed on record that Hedi was involved with Dior Homme and Fahrenheit 32. Hedi doesn’t even mention Dior Homme Intense in the Celine interviews. The only reason I would consider Dior Homme Cologne an Hedi release is because it shares the same neroli idea as Parade which would suggest that Hedi was behind Dior Homme Cologne’s creation as well, but I have zero evidence to back this up. Just based in reviews of Dior Homme Intense it seems like it strays too far from Hedi’s style and is too gaudy. I’m not a fan of Eau Sauvage so I don’t really care about the Fraicheur Cuir flanker. Although Fahrenheit 32 is positioned as a flanker to Fahrenheit, it is an entirely new fragrance and only distantly related. That’s the only reason I think I like it, as I’m not a fan of Fahrenheit either.

Moral of the story is that after Hedi left, all his fragrances either got tweaked, or discontinued. So I get it when Hedi says his fragrances are esoteric. I wouldn’t deter people from trying the modern versions of Eau Noire, Bois d’Argent, and Dior Homme Original.

What’s interesting is that although I liked the smell of all of Hedi’s Dior fragrances, I never liked wearing a lot of them out. Eau Noire is brooding, intense, and arrogant. Bois d’Argent leans more warm and elegant than how I usually dress despite having this magnetic drydown. Cologne Blanche feels a bit too “soft” and cozy for how I usually dress despite being my 10/10 scent, so I love wearing it to bed. Dior Homme feels like it is trying to be too sexy. Fahrenheit 32 is quite intense with the sporty vibe and vanilla sweetness. I ended up mostly wearing Dior Homme Cologne out while reserving the rest for when I'm at home. This is why I’m glad to add his Celine fragrances to my collection. I can see myself wearing Parade, Cologne Française, Eau de Californie, and Reptile more regularly than his Dior fragrances. Nightclubbing would be my guilty pleasure.
 
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