- Jan 12, 2020
- Reaction score
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Oh, I see.Nothing, i'm not a subscriber.
I'm close to 100% sure that Celine's shows alienated the majority of Hedi's Saint Laurent fans. It is just way too dressy or different from what attracted them to Hedi in the first place. I think that ss19, fw19, ss20, and fw21 were unsuccessful on a commercial level, but I do feel like they were successful on an artistic level. It really set the tone for how Hedi wanted Celine to be associated with. It fit with the store aesthetic. It fit with the bags. It fit with Hedi's Celine universe that he has been building. I've shown often how Hedi has really distinguished the Celine girl from the Saint Laurent girl.After a debut show in September 2018 that seemed to alienate — even outrage — much of the audience the brand had built up under his predecessor Phoebe Philo, Slimane has followed up on that divisive start with a spate of collections that more deftly balanced his own taste for the young, thin and cool with market expectations for Celine to cater to a more mature base.
I also think the evolution to a more relaxed silhouette was another issue that alienated his fanbase from Saint Laurent. I do think adding more breathing room again was perfect for the artistic vision Hedi wanted to convey. I also want to say it is very on trend. Hedi is moving along with society and wanting to capture the growing market of people moving away from super skinny looks. It is just that most of the fashionable crowd are younger and aren't buying expensive clothing, or Celine as a brand doesn't have that social value to flex.Slimane’s strict curation of vintage references, expert styling, and the way his tailoring had evolved from truly skinny to a shape that was slim, but just slouchy enough to convey Parisian insouciance, were drowned out by the presence of such infantilising propositions.
It is kind of insane how the "fashion authorities" have such an incredibly biased agenda when denigrating Hedi.
I'm not sure how I feel about this. I feel like things are blurry and hip hop/streetwear is incorporating elements from rock, so Hedi's pieces, as standalone items, will always be relevant. But I agree that the modern consumer is probably not interested in "rock" music and styling that is overly lifted from certain rock stars, except Kurt Cobain of course. Kurt Cobain's style can do no wrong and it has been a reigning style icon for almost everyone. The modern consumer is less likely to emotionally relate to Hedi's ss19 - fw20 style.But with hip-hop having supplanted rock music as the dominant cultural force, relaxed, streetwear-inspired silhouettes had become the preferred mode of dress and were driving the success of brands like Off-White and Balenciaga.
Hedi was pretty conservative with ss19 and it makes sense. Setting the tone for a luxury fashion house is important. It isn't a bad collection. The looks can be worn unironically for the fashionable conservative dressing man, or it can be worn ironically by young people wanting to rebel against the prevalence of casual fashion. The market is just so small for both types of individuals. I'm sure there are other brands that cater to conservative fashion, and the fans attracted to Saint Laurent do not want to be anywhere near a suit and tie. I'm sure that the crowd that wears formal clothes ironically are younger and aren't able to afford it. It is a super cool idea if Hedi was able to make the wearing of formal clothes ironically take flight. I'm sad this didn't happen and the world continued to trend to more casual outfits.As Celine branched into menswear for the first time ever, athletic-inspired “dad sneakers” and limited-edition skateboarding shoes were what had been driving sales in the category, not pointy leather boots.
People who only have a superficial understanding of Hedi's work will claim he is always doing the same thing. Clearly this is not the case. Hedi's Celine is such a departure from what they liked from his previous work that his fans feel alienated. They would rather buy from someone mimicking Hedi's Saint Laurent work than Hedi's Celine work. I think that speaks volumes to how different Hedi's Saint Laurent and Hedi's Celine can be. To be fair, there are similarities too. I choose to believe this over another sad possibility, where people feel happier wearing a Saint Laurent tag instead of a Celine tag.As many of Phoebe Philo’s clients quit Celine — in favour of Bottega Veneta, the Row and Hermès, some said — Slimane’s fans at Saint Laurent seemed happy to stay put. On menswear forums where “Slimaniacs” still gather, Vaccarello’s propositions are still discussed as viable options two years more than two years after Hedi returned to the business at Celine.
I do wonder if Hedi is targeting the previous Phoebe clients. Clearly the basics that they mostly bought from Phoebe are still there. Wool coats, sweaters/turtlenecks, trousers, and Phoebe's hit bags. I feel like his items aren't trying to mimic Phoebe's more experimental work though, so I wonder. If I had to guess, I would guess Phoebe sold mostly conservative boring pieces rather than her experimental work. The experimental work was left to the true purists and runway.Holed up in a Saint-Tropez villa, Slimane had landed on what felt like a more considered edit from the Yves Saint Laurent heyday he frequently references — proposing softer, less sexed-up pieces aimed at the mature client Celine is historically known for serving. After a debut that shook the market’s confidence in whether he was still a fashion leader, Slimane’s subsequent collections were as influential as ever: various takes on “neo-bourgeois” dressing and 1970s throwbacks started popping up on runways in subsequent seasons across Paris, London and Milan.
The psychology behind buying bags is interesting. I wonder what girls think about when buying bags. I'm guessing that they want something designer that probably has longevity and staying power. Most probably are conservative in that way and fear buying something new. I'm surprised they don't want to actively position themselves different from their mothers or older women. "My mom wears LV and Chanel, so I don't want to buy it and look like an old lady. I will buy Celine and have a similar bag to Lisa instead."While Celine continues to sell favourite bags from the Philo era, those stars have fuelled rising awareness of new options like satchels with the brand’s historic “Triomphe” logo (brought back by Slimane) and a monogrammed canvas line.
As shown from my posts, just based on social media, there is a heavy presence of Celine on various platforms in East Asia. I wonder if Celine fans from elsewhere are just more conservative and less likely to post, or if social media is truly a good indicator for how popular a brand is in different regions.Celine’s sales in Mainland China accelerated sharply following the lockdowns, and remained at high rates going into the fourth quarter, one source familiar with the matter said.
On menswear forums where “Slimaniacs” still gather, Vaccarello’s propositions are still discussed as viable options two years more than two years after Hedi returned to the business at Celine.
Am I missing some other forum(s) where Hedi at SL/Celine is discussed other than here.. from my anecdotal observations, discussion here and on the FB group has nosedived for SL relative to Celine, at least as it relates to anything Vacarello has produced. "Viable" probably the most generous way of putting it.I find the omission of mentioning Celine fragrances is lazy. Fragrances get marked up a lot and is a real money maker for brands. The fragrances seem to be getting a lot of positive reviews on social media. I suspect the article didn't cover the fragrances because not a lot of people on forums talk about it. It barely has any reviews on Fragrantica for such a big brand. This is why I feel like this was a lazy piece. The writer doesn't feel that invested in this topic.
Yeah, I had to click through to the embedded link, and this lady works at TIME.It is kind of insane how the "fashion authorities" have such an incredibly biased agenda when denigrating Hedi.
I'm a political leftist, feminist, etc., but this stuff kills me. And I groaned at the toxic masculinity cliche in teh article.Yeah, I had to click through to the embedded link, and this lady works at TIME.
The problem is that rather a lot of people who would also align with this identity frankly haven't got a fucking clue what they are talking about (e.g. the journalist, not you). They are happy to jerk their knees at any available opportunity, but haven't actually understood (or likely even read) any of the theories that lie behind the political arguments they espouse. The end result being that perfectly rational, valid, and just arguments are distorted beyond caricature making it easy work for anyone who disagrees with them to dismantle them. The reactionary right doesn't need strawman arguments when so many on the left do such an impressive job of mangling their own (otherwise valid) political theories beyond recognition.I'm a political leftist, feminist, etc., but this stuff kills me.