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The official CELINE thread

kieran84

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Great photos and posts above. As an older gentleman (41!!), I have zero qualms rocking out to Celine. In fact, it's a little more natural than SLP, although SLP blazers etc and most knits are still no brainers. Celine has stronger tailoring right now, though. Obviously, I'm not going to be delving into the monochrome collection, although that clean tan hoodie above looks gorgeous for layering under denim/leather on the weekends. Too bad it doesn't seem to be available in the US collection.
On the subject of tailoring, do the stores stock classic business type suits similar to the classic 2 buttons in navy, charcoal, etc that were available at Saint Laurent? Wouldn't mind picking up a suit. I'd probably need separates though as the trousers that came with my size at Saint Laurent were huge. The runway suits were usually available in separates but not the business suits as far as I'm aware.
 

Furq

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Just ordered the Berlin cavalry boots looking forward to seeing how they are

I like the pages boot as well but at 6’2 not sure if the heel would be too much
 

SirGrotius

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Also curious to what DJR was alluding with the Celine sales rep comment. I took away that he was insinuating that someone here is a sales rep for them?

Kieran - in the Manhattan store, admittedly which I haven't visited in about a year, they had both solid navy (medium shade) and black business suits. I thought the cuts spot on, although you're right, the pants, as always will need a heap of tailoring but this is doable if the tailor/SA understands the importance of taking in the seat of the pants, etc. not just bringing up the hem. They had more pinstriped suits than I'm used to seeing a bit of the double-breasted thing going on, too. I usually don't dabble in that direction, although I gather it's their focus.
 

DJR

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elaborate
Wish I could, but unfortunately LVMH read these boards; don't want to get any good people in trouble. Just know that Dior is crazy, and Celine... well, they are doing some unexpected maneuvering.

Related and Some big news - Celine closed the Milan Men boutique. Also shut down department store section for mens. This explains all crazy internal sales for staff mid-season. I was on fence with this until got my own information - but Brand is not doing well.
 

SirGrotius

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I used to and still do wear a lot of Dior. Absolutely loved their quality and what KVA did (so clean). I respect Kim Jones, just not my thing, and obviously, almost completely reinvented. But anyway, that makes sense with the comments above. That's tough to lose a presence in Milan.
 

kieran84

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Thanks Sirgrotius. I need to get to a store soon then as there's lots I'm interested in, and I haven't had much luck with my online ordering recently.

The Saint Laurent business suits were very underrated. Maybe not amazing in quality but the fit was great. I remember one of the sales assistants at Bond street had a blue 2 button one that I saw him wear with black cropped jodhpur, 3 passant and white Yves collar shirt. Looked phenomenal but he said it was from Paris I think.
 

thorns

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Related and Some big news - Celine closed the Milan Men boutique. Also shut down department store section for mens. This explains all crazy internal sales for staff mid-season. I was on fence with this until got my own information - but Brand is not doing well.
I wonder why the men's area is being specifically targeted. Perhaps the men's sales are performing worse than women's sales? I wonder how much the pandemic hit them and played a factor in this. I wonder if sales played a role in impacting the timeline for the release of the 2 other yet to be released fragrances, Rimbaud and Bois Dormant.

Curious if they will start expanding in the Asian market or if they're focused on just trimming things down.
 
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kieran84

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Not a good sign if stores are closing. I'd be interested to know if Hedi's work has done well in Milan under other labels though. He's pretty much the opposite of other Milanese fashion and I'd expect sales to be much better in cities like London or Paris.
 

Deonfate

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I defer to your knowledge regarding what body type can still look good in Phoebe's designs, and I can totally agree that it is harder to look chic in Hedi's style if you're significantly obese. I get the criticism that "Hedi only designs for young people", since it is just sexier and sells better than featuring old people. However, I feel like Hedi's universe also fits in older men and women. They're just more restricted to less playful designs.

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Media praised Phoebe's inclusivity for featuring Joan Didion, but you never really hear about Hedi featuring many older women back at Saint Laurent. Inclusivity just doesn't match the narrative that they have been pushing for when denigrating Hedi. In their eyes, Hedi is an out of touch misogynistic woman hater who doesn't design for real women, and they're desperate for everyone to believe it as well.

Many of his Celine looks would look nice on an older woman as well.
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Ultimately I think both styles can coexist, I just find myself gravitating more to Hedi. Looking at Phoebe's work makes me appreciate Hedi's work so much more.
I get that you're a fan of Hedi, I am too, but you're all giving him way too much credit.

He is a really great menswear designer, an important voice in the whole field. Sadly the same can't be said in womenswear, especially his days at SLP. Women of all age groups wore blazers and biker jackets before Hedi you know. If you're talking about that particular look, well it was not exactly new or a Slimane invention. His SS13 debut left everyone scratching their head because the look was actually old and déjà-vu at that time. Christophe Decarnin under Balmain was sending very very similar looks 5 years prior. Isabelle Marrant was also doing that same look at the time.

I always thought Hedi picked a thing or two from the Decarnin book. It is not unimaginable to assume that the clients migrated towards SLP when Christophe left Balmain and got butchered by his successor Olivier Rousteing. Also the SLP tag really helps.

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Hedi's vision is just more refined and realistic than Decarnin's. But broken down to individual pieces there's not that big of difference. And there are many stylish women who know how to pick and choose.

Regarding dressing different morphologies, I think if you don't have a thin frame you're not fully channeling the Hedi look no matter your age. I don't think he really cares or tries to dress everyone to his credit.
 

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Deonfate

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I get that you're a fan of Hedi, I am too, but you're all giving him way too much credit.

He is a really great menswear designer, an important voice in the whole field. Sadly the same can't be said in womenswear, especially his days at SLP. Women of all age groups wore blazers and biker jackets before Hedi you know. If you're talking about that particular look, well it was not exactly new or a Slimane invention. His SS13 debut left everyone scratching their head because the look was actually old and déjà-vu at that time. Christophe Decarnin under Balmain was sending very very similar looks 5 years prior. Isabelle Marrant was also doing that same look at the time.

I always thought Hedi picked a thing or two from the Decarnin book. It is not unimaginable to assume that the clients migrated towards SLP when Christophe left Balmain and got butchered by his successor Olivier Rousteing. Also the SLP tag really helps.

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Hedi's vision is just more refined and realistic than Decarnin's. But broken down to individual pieces there's not that big of difference. And there are many stylish women who know how to pick and choose.

Regarding dressing different morphologies, I think if you don't have a thin frame you're not fully channeling the Hedi look no matter your age. I don't think he really cares or tries to dress everyone to his credit.
 

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Jabbathecunt

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This is definitely fascinating so thanks for sharing. I was under the impression that Hedi was mining Celine's own archives of what they put out in the 70s. Perhaps Celine was riffing on Yves' work as their source material even back then.


I don't have any particularly strong feelings either way. Although the past is important for context and understanding the present, I don't feel like it should act as balls and chains in restricting what the future can be. Although Celine was a "budget" brand, I don't think that should limit Hedi's aspirations. I actually don't think Hedi changed the idea of having easy ready-to-wear pieces for Celine. Although Hedi might not be doing exactly neutral tones, there is an emphasis on warmer colour palettes.


I won't deny that I'm viewing everything through a very biased perspective. However, any of Phoebe's work I've briefly seen through quick cursory google searches yielded extremely unflattering looks. What exactly is her design language and sensibilities that has now become the norm in today's fashion?


I can see how since LV pioneered it, anyone else that follows is heavily inspired from the original. However, I'm not sure if I'm 100% for someone monopolizing a certain style just because they are the originators. I feel like healthy competition will ultimately help them grow and give consumers a better product. I can understand how someone who believes in "heritage" will only respect the ones who first created something. However, isn't innovation all really created by inspiration from something else? Now on more practical terms, I can see how nobody would care as much about the Celine monogram compared to the LV monogram. The LV monogram has more social value/reputation than Celine has. Hedi's Celine monogram, for practical intents and purposes, is basically a "new" creation in the eyes of most people.


I agree 100%. I feel like it would have been the perfect story if Hedi stayed at Saint Laurent so that his arc comes full circle to back to his origins. I would be curious what fragrances he would have released at Saint Laurent.
You do not have to wonder, Hedi doesn't stop or start with a brand, he is a storm that will not finish until he is done. He has a story to tell and I am reading every line.
 

Jabbathecunt

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I really can't word someone's design language rightfully, especially when I'm not really fond of them. However, Phoebe brought a sense of craftiness and rawness to an otherwise streamlined clean bourgeois look. The clothes have a drape to them that gives emphasis on the fabric and the wearer in general. There's also a subtle playfulness to it with some design details such as square toes or humongous bags. Just watch a Bottega Veneta show or Loewe or Givenchy under Claire and compare them to a Celine one, you'll feel the similarities and the styles presented at their core are practically the same. It is really mind-boggling for me to see it have this mainstream appeal, but the numbers and the streets don't lie. They're probably on to something just not for everyone on the face of the globe. And apparently we happen to be one of them.

Celine as a brand never really was a major fashion player until Michael Kors arrived. They've always made versions of popular items and aesthetics at the time. Whether it's the sellerie Hermés codes, Gucci bambous, LV monogram, YSL bohemian chic etc. Even compared to similar brand such as Chloé, it's like the older less cool sister. Phoebe arrived and gave it huge fashion caché that would sustain it for decades. It was really unnecessary to bring back those past things such the canvas, they have no real appeal in the public consciousness and they're embarrassing rip offs who were rightfully left behind.

Maybe deep down I'm rooting for Hedi to succeed. It's embarrassing to see someone trying so hard to force something that really have no purpose for existing, and at the expense for something much more modern. I bet LVMH are biting their fingers to not capitalise on the Phoebe wave, especially when they're the one that originated it. I feel there's huge amount of pressure on Slimane right now which prompted him to send the embarassing SS21 and the "monochrome" collection.

Deep down the rubble of modern Celine, here are some items that could be from my fantasy Hedi Celine:
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This wool/cotton blend trench coat with tailleur sleeves and épaulettes. I think it might have a canvas construction inside. The slim silhouette is quintessential Hedi in a beautiful dark beige.
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This charcoal striped wool suit with flare pants that don't look like they come from the John Travolta repertoire. Also the styling with the cashmere turtle neck is a nice node to a recurring Celine code.
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Relaxed corporate tailoring with some drape.
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This playful styling with classic Hedi pieces and some "conservative" dress codes. Also the more daring color palette and textures of FW19 (both men and women were a smashing success to me) were very fresh
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This take on a hoodie sweater. The finishing and the cashmere material really elevates it to another level.

The old gaudy Mick Jagger rejects are really uncalled for and too fashion-y for mainstream appeal in my opinion.
Oh my, Phoebe had her run and she did good but ultimately could not hack it. Somebody had to take over. You are reaching with these statements.
 

Jabbathecunt

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I defer to your knowledge regarding what body type can still look good in Phoebe's designs, and I can totally agree that it is harder to look chic in Hedi's style if you're significantly obese. I get the criticism that "Hedi only designs for young people", since it is just sexier and sells better than featuring old people. However, I feel like Hedi's universe also fits in older men and women. They're just more restricted to less playful designs.

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Media praised Phoebe's inclusivity for featuring Joan Didion, but you never really hear about Hedi featuring many older women back at Saint Laurent. Inclusivity just doesn't match the narrative that they have been pushing for when denigrating Hedi. In their eyes, Hedi is an out of touch misogynistic woman hater who doesn't design for real women, and they're desperate for everyone to believe it as well.

Many of his Celine looks would look nice on an older woman as well.
View attachment 1480049

View attachment 1480058

Ultimately I think both styles can coexist, I just find myself gravitating more to Hedi. Looking at Phoebe's work makes me appreciate Hedi's work so much more.
They said Hedi only favors the youth. Somebody once said "youth is wasted on the young" but once again Hedi proved them wrong!!!
 
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Jabbathecunt

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On the subject of tailoring, do the stores stock classic business type suits similar to the classic 2 buttons in navy, charcoal, etc that were available at Saint Laurent? Wouldn't mind picking up a suit. I'd probably need separates though as the trousers that came with my size at Saint Laurent were huge. The runway suits were usually available in separates but not the business suits as far as I'm aware.
You can pick up the 2 button separate from Celine in your size, expertly tailored.
 
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Jabbathecunt

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I get that you're a fan of Hedi, I am too, but you're all giving him way too much credit.

He is a really great menswear designer, an important voice in the whole field. Sadly the same can't be said in womenswear, especially his days at SLP. Women of all age groups wore blazers and biker jackets before Hedi you know. If you're talking about that particular look, well it was not exactly new or a Slimane invention. His SS13 debut left everyone scratching their head because the look was actually old and déjà-vu at that time. Christophe Decarnin under Balmain was sending very very similar looks 5 years prior. Isabelle Marrant was also doing that same look at the time.

I always thought Hedi picked a thing or two from the Decarnin book. It is not unimaginable to assume that the clients migrated towards SLP when Christophe left Balmain and got butchered by his successor Olivier Rousteing. Also the SLP tag really helps.

View attachment 1480288View attachment 1480386
View attachment 1480323View attachment 1480336
View attachment 1480328View attachment 1480329
View attachment 1480349View attachment 1480350

Hedi's vision is just more refined and realistic than Decarnin's. But broken down to individual pieces there's not that big of difference. And there are many stylish women who know how to pick and choose.

Regarding dressing different morphologies, I think if you don't have a thin frame you're not fully channeling the Hedi look no matter your age. I don't think he really cares or tries to dress everyone to his credit.
They did not invent these styles, are you kidding me? Please educate yourself.
 
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