The Official Carmina Sizing Thread

[007Bond]

"A Carmina E (narrow) = US D
or
B Carmina E (standard) = US D
Trying to understand what you think Carmina E is Standard or Narrow?"

I'd choose option C - it depends on the style. Carmina is a different type of maker, and "standard" varies by shoe. Standard for Rain is EE, and I think this fits on the large side of "standard" (I'd argue it fits simliar to US E's, except for the toebox). Standard for Simpson is E, and I think this fits on the slimmer side of standard. Simpson definitely is not a "narrow" in US market terms, though it is somewhat low-volume.

I think another factor is that lasts from European shoemakers typically have higher insteps; Carmina may describe Rain as "standard-fitting" but for what market? If Euro lasts reflect European feet, I suspect Rain would work better for Europeans than Americans on average.

Carmina offers as low as D (available on Rain which would certainly be narrow) and as high as EEE (which would probably not be as wide as US EEE). However, most of their lasts are only available in 1 or 2 widths AFAIK. Their focus seems to be on the middle part of the market, so I think most of their lasts would fall into the "standard" zone.

OK got it I see what you are saying.

I kinda disagree on the Rain EE being almost = to US E at least for Allen Edmonds. In AE I fit in D just nice but E way to wide and heel slip, but Rain EE just snug when new and then just perfect.

Simson is for sure more narrow not sure if Carmina officially calls the ste E or EE but agreed narrow in any case.

I have a high instep so yes agreed and I like the taller room it works out for me as there are similar AE shoes I cannot wear due to my instep.

Just to note I have many Rain EE and once found a good deal on a Rain EEE so I took a chance. The diff is virtually unnoticeable, I mean sure it is a little bigger, but if you did not tell me that it was an EEE and you told me it was an EE I would not question it, as it is that close.

So I think you are on point saying that they are focused on the middle of the market as the narrow is not that narrow and the wide is not that wide.

Oh as for the standard fitting I am sure that's for the home market.

For me out of many makers Carmina fits my feet the best for all day comfort. That would explain why 90% of my collection is from Carmina.

 

[smoothguyto]

I measure a 6 EE on a Brannock Device and that's also the size I wear for AE Park Avenue. They fit perfectly and when I lace them up nice and snug there's just a slight gap which is ideal. With the guidelines to size down one from US sizing for Carmina, I would be a 5 UK but I'm concerned that the standard width Carmina EE (which people say is really like an US D width) won't be able to close around my wide foot. I've read that people generally wear the same size in Rain, Forest, Inca, etc. and I own a pair of the Balmoral Dress Boots in a Forest Last where I went with a 5.5 UK size which fits the width of my foot great and laces up amazingly with minimal lacing gap but I do notice some heel slip. The heel slip isn't really an issue in a boot since it's laced up really well and it's not as if my foot is going to fall out.

I wonder if I take a 5.5 UK in a Rain Last Oxford shoe if the heel slip will be a problem. Will the heel slip issue go away after sufficient break-in? If I go 5 UK I'm afraid my fat foot isn't even going to fit into the shoe or I will have major V spread on my lacing. I've read that the Rain last is relatively wide and has more room for the instep compared to Carmina's other lasts. Is it enough to accommodate my EE wide foot without going up a half size? Should I consider going to the Rain EEE Last in 5 which I've read is really just an E width?

As an additional data point, I wear a size 5 UK in the Loake Aldwych on their Capital Last which is a balmoral oxford style in their standard F width but I think their standard width is on the wide side compared to an AE 65 Last. The fit is good without any heel slip and lace up with minimal V gap.

 

[nvrp813]

I'm trying to buy my first pair of Carmina's and was unsure on sizing. For reference my foot measure:
275mm - Length
96mm - Width at widest part
251mm - Circumference around ball

Based on these measurements I'm a US 10.5C or US 10D on Brannock device

I reached out to Carmina, who provided me insole measurements for 4 different lasts based on my foot measurements, and figured I'd post if it's any help to the community.

Carmina Insole MEASUREMENTS per Last (Length * Width) :
**Based off UK sizes and I assume standard width

Rain 8.5: 290.23 mm * 97 mm
Rain size 9: 298.69 mm * 98 mm.
Rain 9.5: 302.92 mm * 99 mm

Forest 8.5: 290.96 mm * 95 mm
Forest 9: 295.19 mm * 96 mm
Forest 9.5: 299.42 mm * 97 mm

Simpson size 8.5: 295.49 mm *95 mm.
Simpson size 9: 299.69 mm *96 mm.
Simpson 9.5: 303.92 mm * 97 mm

Inca 8.5:297.46 mm * 97 mm
Inca 9: 301.69 mm * 98 mm
Inca 9.5:305.92 mm * 99 mm

 

[charles]

I'm trying to buy my first pair of Carmina's and was unsure on sizing. For reference my foot measure:
275mm - Length
96mm - Width at widest part
251mm - Circumference around ball

Based on these measurements I'm a US 10.5C or US 10D on Brannock device

I reached out to Carmina, who provided me insole measurements for 4 different lasts based on my foot measurements, and figured I'd post if it's any help to the community.

Carmina Insole MEASUREMENTS per Last (Length * Width) :
**Based off UK sizes and I assume standard width

Rain 8.5: 290.23 mm * 97 mm
Rain size 9: 298.69 mm * 98 mm.
Rain 9.5: 302.92 mm * 99 mm

Forest 8.5: 290.96 mm * 95 mm
Forest 9: 295.19 mm * 96 mm
Forest 9.5: 299.42 mm * 97 mm

Simpson size 8.5: 295.49 mm *95 mm.
Simpson size 9: 299.69 mm *96 mm.
Simpson 9.5: 303.92 mm * 97 mm

Inca 8.5:297.46 mm * 97 mm
Inca 9: 301.69 mm * 98 mm
Inca 9.5:305.92 mm * 99 mm

Thank you for sharing this !

Any chance to have same measurments for 10, 10.5 and 11 for same lasts and Soller last too ?

 

[nvrp813]

Thank you for sharing this !

Any chance to have same measurments for 10, 10.5 and 11 for same lasts and Soller last too ?

I do not but they were very forthcoming with the information. I'm sure if you reach out to them with the lasts and sizes you're interested in they will provide what you're looking for.

 

[nvrp813]



For what it's worth I am 9.5 D US on AE park avenue & strand. I take 8.5 UK on rain last & tried 9UK in forest last it was half a size big & had too muc wiggle room. Just sharing my input with you.

I know you posted this almost 3.5 years ago but figured it’s worth a shot to ask. Like you, I’m also a 9.5 on AE 65 last and my foot is on the narrow side of medium. Would you say your 8.5 on Rain last fit you best out of all the Carmina lasts? Thanks.

 

[TtownMD]

I know you posted this almost 3.5 years ago but figured it’s worth a shot to ask. Like you, I’m also a 9.5 on AE 65 last and my foot is on the narrow side of medium. Would you say your 8.5 on Rain last fit you best out of all the Carmina lasts? Thanks.

Yes take 8.5uk regular width for carmina rain. Also if you have low instep aka low volume foot & narrow heel. Rain would not be your best fit. I prefer my shoes snugg. So for carmina I would say go for Simpson, utem, Oscar lasts. You will get best fit out of them vs other last. Because other last have crazy high instep & heel is too big. Hope this helps you so you don’t waste money.

 

[nvrp813]

Yes take 8.5uk regular width for carmina rain. Also if you have low instep aka low volume foot & narrow heel. Rain would not be your best fit. I prefer my shoes snugg. So for carmina I would say go for Simpson, utem, Oscar lasts. You will get best fit out of them vs other last. Because other last have crazy high instep & heel is too big. Hope this helps you so you don’t waste money.

Very much appreciated. I would say my instep is on the higher side of medium. Definitely not low. For reference, here’s a pic of how my Fifth Avenue s fit when new. Over time I expect the lace ‘V’ to close as the leather stretches but currently it’s quite spread.

 

[TtownMD]

Very much appreciated. I would say my instep is on the higher side of medium. Definitely not low. For reference, here’s a pic of how my Fifth Avenue s fit when new. Over time I expect the lace ‘V’ to close as the leather stretches but currently it’s quite spread.

View attachment 1131436

Then take 8.5uk regular width for whatever last you like. Your should be good to go as long as you have regular to high instep.

 

[nvrp813]

Then take 8.5uk regular width for whatever last you like. Your should be good to go as long as you have regular to high instep.

Thank you for the help.

 

[jet-stream]

I know you posted this almost 3.5 years ago but figured it’s worth a shot to ask. Like you, I’m also a 9.5 on AE 65 last and my foot is on the narrow side of medium. Would you say your 8.5 on Rain last fit you best out of all the Carmina lasts? Thanks.

Yes take 8.5uk regular width for carmina rain. Also if you have low instep aka low volume foot & narrow heel. Rain would not be your best fit. I prefer my shoes snugg. So for carmina I would say go for Simpson, utem, Oscar lasts. You will get best fit out of them vs other last. Because other last have crazy high instep & heel is too big. Hope this helps you so you don’t waste money.

Very much appreciated. I would say my instep is on the higher side of medium. Definitely not low. For reference, here’s a pic of how my Fifth Avenue s fit when new. Over time I expect the lace ‘V’ to close as the leather stretches but currently it’s quite spread.

View attachment 1131436

I agree with Ttown. Rain and Inca (and Llubi, and Detroit) are high volume with a large heel - honestly 8UK would be your best bet in those, but it probably wouldn’t work that well.

Simpson would be a slam dunk - I think Alcudia as well. Uetam for loafers, all 8.5UK. I think Robert/Forest/Oscar would likely work as well, also 8.5.

For reference, Simpson in 10UK:

AE 65 in 11D US:

Simpson will actually close a bit more than the 65, and Alcudia a bit more from there. Some have trouble with Simpson being too narrow in the toes, but it doesn’t sound like you have an issue there...

 

[nvrp813]

I agree with Ttown. Rain and Inca (and Llubi, and Detroit) are high volume with a large heel - honestly 8UK would be your best bet in those, but it probably wouldn’t work that well.

Simpson would be a slam dunk - I think Alcudia as well. Uetam for loafers, all 8.5UK. I think Robert/Forest/Oscar would likely work as well, also 8.5.

For reference, Simpson in 10UK:
View attachment 1131454

AE 65 in 11D US:
View attachment 1131453

Simpson will actually close a bit more than the 65, and Alcudia a bit more from there. Some have trouble with Simpson being too narrow in the toes, but it doesn’t sound like you have an issue there...

Thank you so much for the pictures. Definitely puts the sizing into better perspective. Reading this thread I kind of eliminated the Simpson last as it sounded like it would fit tighter than AE 65. Looks like it’s quite the opposite.

Very much appreciated and extremely helpful!

 

[jet-stream]

Thank you so much for the pictures. Definitely puts the sizing into better perspective. Reading this thread I kind of eliminated the Simpson last as it sounded like it would fit tighter than AE 65. Looks like it’s quite the opposite.

Very much appreciated and extremely helpful!

Happy to help. For Simpson, it's all about what last one is comparing to it. Allen Edmonds lasts tend to have a much lower instep than European makers - the 65 specifically has a very low instep, runs long, and is a bit tight in the toes. Simpson actually has more room in the toe box IMO; the taper is better placed and it's more asymmetrical, so more room for big toe as well. It's often criticized as snug/low-volume, but not compared to the 65.

 

[Sam687]

Hello guys,
I would like to be enlightened before ordering my second pair of Carmina.

I already own a pair of 80093 single monk on Alcudia last size 9,5. They fit me like a glove although they killed me for the first few wears...

I like my shoes snug, and the tightness of the Alcudia suits me. I assume Alcudia is on the tightest side of the spectrum, in that case what would be the last that corresponds to Alcudia without being tighter (as I'm afraid this might be uncomfortable)? Indeed, since Carmina abandoned the Alcudia (except in MTO), it seems that I need to look for a different last.

I believe if one of you owns Alcudia and other lasts in his collection, he could provide me with the information I need; last as close as possible from Alcudia (without being tighter) and size in Alcudia vs size in other last.

Thank you.

 

[jet-stream]

Hello guys,
I would like to be enlightened before ordering my second pair of Carmina.

I already own a pair of 80093 single monk on Alcudia last size 9,5. They fit me like a glove although they killed me for the first few wears...

I like my shoes snug, and the tightness of the Alcudia suits me. I assume Alcudia is on the tightest side of the spectrum, in that case what would be the last that corresponds to Alcudia without being tighter (as I'm afraid this might be uncomfortable)? Indeed, since Carmina abandoned the Alcudia (except in MTO), it seems that I need to look for a different last.

I believe if one of you owns Alcudia and other lasts in his collection, he could provide me with the information I need; last as close as possible from Alcudia (without being tighter) and size in Alcudia vs size in other last.

Thank you.

Simpson is very similar, perhaps slightly slower in the instep.

Uetam is similar as well but with a lower vamp.

The next closest would be Robert, I think, but it has a higher instep.