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The Official Carmina Sizing Thread

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by SpooPoker, Mar 5, 2012.

  1. zag73

    zag73 Senior Member

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    Perhaps down to different leather types?
     

  2. JJRADICK

    JJRADICK Senior Member

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    No. It's a quality control issue. Even in the same batch, some fit tight, some fit loosely. I exchanged one pair that is too tight and with a deep scratch on it, and received a loose pair.
     

  3. zag73

    zag73 Senior Member

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    Does sound like a QC issue.
     

  4. premontb

    premontb New Member

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    I'm looking at getting my first pair of Carmina's, but am unsure of the sizing for the Simpson last. I am a 10D US on a Brannock, fit nicely in an 8.5UK C+J 348 last, and a 9.5 AE strand last. It seems like for most lasts 8.5UK would be okay, but I've read on this thread the Simpson runs larger. Would you recommend an 8.5 or 9 Simpson? And would it differ between Chelseas/Oxfords? Thanks!
     

  5. 007Bond

    007Bond Distinguished Member

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    Not sure where you read that what is always posted is that the Simpson runs smaller. Even on the Carmina site it says upsize half is recommended. I am a US10D and all my Carmina's are 9EE and they fit perfect. The only exception is when I bought my chukka it was on Simpson and I did what everyone says and uped half and got a 9.5EE. To this day I kick myself as that boot fits just a little bit loose all the time. I always wish I had got my std 9EE. Now note I have never tried a Simpson 9EE, so I actually don't know how it would fit, all I know is the half size up fits a little to loose at least on the chukka's.

    Just wanted to note that Carmina EE is the same as US D, standard width.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019 at 3:39 PM

  6. premontb

    premontb New Member

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    Ahh okay my fault I must have misunderstood, but thanks for the response. Of all of yours that fit perfectly, are any in the Simpson last? Just wondering if the loose fit is because of the chukka or the last, even a half size up.
     

  7. 007Bond

    007Bond Distinguished Member

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    So I was just poking around the Carmina site and found this statement:
    "For this we used the chiseled and sleek Simpson last. One of the all time favorites. Simpson last is one of our narrowest lasts, we use to recommend to size up half size on this last."

    Notice is says "We use to recommend to size up half" so sounds like even Carmina has pulled back on that recommendation.

    So the only Simpson last I have is the Chukka Boots 905 in shell cordovan. I am 99.9% that not sizing up was the way I should have gone. Honestly I much prefer a shoe/boot that is a little snug and molds to my foot over something that is loose from day one.

    You will find many notes how the Simpson is narrow, but not really. There was I am not sure maybe 6 months ago Carminal posted last comps. From this you could clearly see how the Simpson was only a tiny fraction smaller than other lasts.

    Especially if I was to buy another chukka on the Simpson I would not hesitate to get my normal size. And the fact that even on the Carmina web site they have actually posted this it just double confirms it.

    But to make sure I answer you I have the following thoughts. Every chukka I have had no matter the last or maker has seemed to fit looser than other boots or shoes of the same size and last. So the reason I think my Chukka Boots 905 on the Simpson last fits a little loose is, A: because it is a chukka, B: because I upsized half and I should not have.

    Now last monkey wrench for you, instep. If you are buying a boot and have average to high instep and you are buying Simpson you are probably ok with your normal size. If you are getting say a Derby still probably ok on your normal size for Simpson. What I don't know is if you are getting a slip on as I have a high instep and sometimes this makes for a tight fit and I don't have any Carmina Simpson slip on so I can't say.
     

  8. jet-stream

    jet-stream Distinguished Member

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    For clarification, the Simpson is described by Carmina as being E, not EE; most lasts come in E as a default, which is roughly equivalent to US D. Rain and Inca are notable exceptions - both are EE and closer to US E fitting, though both have toebox limitations to be aware of. There are other exceptions, such as Llubi, and some lasts can be ordered in different widths (such as Rain D).

    @premontb - your AE Strands are 8.5D, correct (not 8.5E)? If yes, and if those AND the C&J 348s fit you well, it’s extremely likely that 8.5 UK would be your Simpson size, and quite likely that you will like the fit. Simpson will be right in between the two for cone volume, have maybe a touch more room in the toes, and be similar to that AE for heel size.
     

  9. 007Bond

    007Bond Distinguished Member

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    Not sure but all my std "default" widths from Carmina are EE = to US D (see below from Carmina in ref to widths).

    Can you point to the reference on the Carmina site where it states that the Simpson is E by default and not EE.

    Maybe you are confusing UK with Carmina as UK E is = to US D but for Carmina EE is = to US D.

    Anyways just trying to understand as what you are saying contradicts what I see on the Carmina site.

    Screen Shot 2019-01-12 at 9.37.51 PM.png
     

  10. premontb

    premontb New Member

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    Yea that's kind of what I was thinking as it's been my experience with chukkas that they always run a bit larger than typical fit even if it's the same maker+last.

    I reached out to Carmina to see what their recommendation was, and made a trip to Barney's in the hopes they might have something in store I could try on seeing as they carry Carmina on the website (they did not), but since you're also 10D and fit well with 9EE it seems like that's a safe place to start. Thank you both again for the help!
     

  11. 007Bond

    007Bond Distinguished Member

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    There is a Carmina store in NYC if you are close.

    If you are close to NJ you are welcome to stop by and try my pair.
     

  12. jet-stream

    jet-stream Distinguished Member

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    I haven’t seen that chart before, but my info on lasts comes from owning a bunch of Carminas, and is corroborated by Carmina. Their page on lasts is here: https://www.carminashoemaker.us/abo...3.1456313308.1547363745-2130145826.1475713986

    IIRC, your feet run a bit wide and you have tended to favor Rain, Rain EEE, and Detroit. Rain, Inca, Detroit, and Llubi come in EE standard - it doesn’t surprise me that many of your Carminas have been EE standard, since you favor the larger lasts (though I recall you don’t like Inca because of th big toe taper).

    Simpson, Alcudia, Uetam, Oscar, Robert, Forest, and Soller come in E by default. I’m sure there are others, but I have shoes on all of these except Forest. I’ll note there is pretty large variation within these - for instance, I think Soller fits closer to EE than E. I also have a shoe on Inca, and in general that EE shoe has more volumes than any of my E models (though Soller is close).

    I’m a US 11D and have many AEs in 11D and a couple in 11E. This provides my basis for gauging differences in between widths. My 11Es have about the same volume that my Incas (10EE) do.

    It’s based on this that I say Carmina E = US D. If Carmina disagrees with that assessment, they are certainly entitled to do so, but I don’t think the characterization on the chart you provided is particularly accurate. Someone who fits well into an AE 65-lasted shoe in a D width would be swimming in a Rain, unless they were able to size down.
     

  13. jet-stream

    jet-stream Distinguished Member

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    I’ll reiterate - if the assumptions I made in my initial post on this topic were correct, I’m quite confident that 8.5 would be he size for you. It would be E (not EE), by the way.
     

  14. 007Bond

    007Bond Distinguished Member

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    "(though I recall you don’t like Inca because of the big toe taper)." 100% correct.

    BTW that chart is available if you click the sizing guide on most any of the shoes.

    For sure example Carmina wide EEE is not like Allen Edmonds wide E. I know for me Allen Edmonds D fits good and if I try and E it is like a boat. But I own Carmina same last EE and EEE and the EEE is hard to even notice the diff from EE. But on AE D vs E easy to notice how much wider E is...

    Not sure on the 65 vs Rain I had many 65 10D AE's and they fit me as well has my current Rain 9EE's.

    Maybe Carmina can confirm, it was always my understanding the Carmina had mostly 3 widths E = Narrow, EE = Normal, EEE = Wide.
    That is what is posted on the size guide of every shoe on the Carmina website so I would assume it is correct.

    Just so I understand I want to ask you a point of clarification. You say "It’s based on this that I say Carmina E = US D" so are you saying.

    A Carmina E (narrow) = US D
    or
    B Carmina E (standard) = US D

    Trying to understand what you think Carmina E is Standard or Narrow?

    The site says E is Narrow but so I understand your fitting I want to know what you are saying it is.

    Thanks
     

  15. jet-stream

    jet-stream Distinguished Member

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    "A Carmina E (narrow) = US D
    or
    B Carmina E (standard) = US D
    Trying to understand what you think Carmina E is Standard or Narrow?"

    I'd choose option C - it depends on the style. Carmina is a different type of maker, and "standard" varies by shoe. Standard for Rain is EE, and I think this fits on the large side of "standard" (I'd argue it fits simliar to US E's, except for the toebox). Standard for Simpson is E, and I think this fits on the slimmer side of standard. Simpson definitely is not a "narrow" in US market terms, though it is somewhat low-volume.

    I think another factor is that lasts from European shoemakers typically have higher insteps; Carmina may describe Rain as "standard-fitting" but for what market? If Euro lasts reflect European feet, I suspect Rain would work better for Europeans than Americans on average.

    Carmina offers as low as D (available on Rain which would certainly be narrow) and as high as EEE (which would probably not be as wide as US EEE). However, most of their lasts are only available in 1 or 2 widths AFAIK. Their focus seems to be on the middle part of the market, so I think most of their lasts would fall into the "standard" zone.
     

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