The Official Carmina Sizing Thread

[bennanza]

update for you! got the 9 double monk straps (inca last) in cordovan leather, burgundy. Just simply the most amazing shoe I could imagine and fits perfectly - maybe this helps someone.

 

[Owerade]

Hello! I'm considering ordering a pair of the wholecut oxfords. My other dress shoes are all Allen Edmonds (Park Ave, Strand, Mora 2.0, Dalton) in 9.5D. Can anyone please help with sizing recommendations? If you also know and can share sizing for the Meermin wholecuts and the C&J Alex, that would be amazing!

Update on this.

I ordered a pair in UK size 8.5. They feel good except that the heels seem a bit loose. I can fit my finger in the heels of the shoes with no resistance and my heels slightly lift when walking. For reference, there is also zero lace gap.

Do you think moving down to a UK size 8 will solve the problem?

 

[NocheOscura]

Hello there. I am a new registered member, though, long time observer. I recently made the switch to quality made shoes. I have 2 Allen Edmonds shoes and want to get a pair of Carmina shoes.

For reference, I am a US 10.5 E on the Brannock device. I wear a 10.5 E on the 65 last (Park and 5th Ave), a 10.5 D on the 2531 last (Wholecut MacLennan), and a 10 EEE on the 2042 last (Lake Bluff loafer). I have an average instep, and somewhat below average arch. My feet are widest at the forefoot.

I have looked at Carmina shoes in the Rain, Forest, Inca, and Simpson lasts. What size do you recommend that I get?

Thank you so much, in advance, for the help.

 

[jet-stream]

Hello there. I am a new registered member, though, long time observer. I recently made the switch to quality made shoes. I have 2 Allen Edmonds shoes and want to get a pair of Carmina shoes.

For reference, I am a US 10.5 E on the Brannock device. I wear a 10.5 E on the 65 last (Park and 5th Ave), a 10.5 D on the 2531 last (Wholecut MacLennan), and a 10 EEE on the 2042 last (Lake Bluff loafer). I have an average instep, and somewhat below average arch. My feet are widest at the forefoot.

I have looked at Carmina shoes in the Rain, Forest, Inca, and Simpson lasts. What size do you recommend that I get?

Thank you so much, in advance, for the help.

I would say it depends - if a given size or last does NOT work for you, why? The Carmina lasts you list vary in some important ways:

Rain: lots of volume, big heel, tight in the toebox for your smaller toes
Inca: lots of volume, somewhat big heel, tight in the toebox for your big toes
Forest: Pretty standard fit all around, right in between Rain/Inca (on the big side) and Simpson (on the smaller side)
Simpson: narrow and low instep, medium heel, snug in toebox (but more room than Rain)

Honestly, the only thing throwing me off is your AE 2042 size. That makes me think that you would need Rain or Inca - which of those two would depend on your toes. If you throw out that data point and just look at the 65 and 2531, I would say the Forest is highly likely to work. Simpson is probably too snug unless you size up, but it's possible it could work depending on the specifics of how your feet fit in the 65.

Hope this helps. For reference, I have double-digits of both AE and Carmina, spanning at least 6 Carmina lasts, and at least 10 AE lasts (quick estimates).

 

[useless_username]

I'm thinking to pull the trigger on a pair of Carmina shoes in the Forest last. After trying on a different shoe in the Forest last (twice), I feel like I should pick UK size 11. This is mainly to give enough space in the toe / ball of foot area, which tends to be my 'problem area'. However, all my other dress shoes are UK 10.5 (e.g. C&J, Tricker's)

Is Carmina / Forest really such a tight fit that it makes sense to go half size up from my usual size? Or am I doing something wrong here?

 

[TtownMD]

I'm thinking to pull the trigger on a pair of Carmina shoes in the Forest last. After trying on a different shoe in the Forest last (twice), I feel like I should pick UK size 11. This is mainly to give enough space in the toe / ball of foot area, which tends to be my 'problem area'. However, all my other dress shoes are UK 10.5 (e.g. C&J, Tricker's)

Is Carmina / Forest really such a tight fit that it makes sense to go half size up from my usual size? Or am I doing something wrong here?

I would stick to your normal UK size for forest last personally. Rather than sizing up, unless you want to wear them with boot socks etc

 

[jet-stream]

I'm thinking to pull the trigger on a pair of Carmina shoes in the Forest last. After trying on a different shoe in the Forest last (twice), I feel like I should pick UK size 11. This is mainly to give enough space in the toe / ball of foot area, which tends to be my 'problem area'. However, all my other dress shoes are UK 10.5 (e.g. C&J, Tricker's)

Is Carmina / Forest really such a tight fit that it makes sense to go half size up from my usual size? Or am I doing something wrong here?

I would stick to your normal UK size for forest last personally. Rather than sizing up, unless you want to wear them with boot socks etc

I tend to agree with ttown, though it may depend on details. Which C&J lasts? I don’t have much experience with Trickers, but in general the Forest last is pretty true to size.

 

[NocheOscura]

I would say it depends - if a given size or last does NOT work for you, why? The Carmina lasts you list vary in some important ways:

Rain: lots of volume, big heel, tight in the toebox for your smaller toes
Inca: lots of volume, somewhat big heel, tight in the toebox for your big toes
Forest: Pretty standard fit all around, right in between Rain/Inca (on the big side) and Simpson (on the smaller side)
Simpson: narrow and low instep, medium heel, snug in toebox (but more room than Rain)

Honestly, the only thing throwing me off is your AE 2042 size. That makes me think that you would need Rain or Inca - which of those two would depend on your toes. If you throw out that data point and just look at the 65 and 2531, I would say the Forest is highly likely to work. Simpson is probably too snug unless you size up, but it's possible it could work depending on the specifics of how your feet fit in the 65.

Hope this helps. For reference, I have double-digits of both AE and Carmina, spanning at least 6 Carmina lasts, and at least 10 AE lasts (quick estimates).

I was thinking that the Simpson would be the biggest problem for me, because from what I've been reading on these forums, it's the most narrow of the lasts listed. I just want to be on the safe side.

When I first got my Park and 5th avenues, they fit pretty good. I didn't feel like my toes were being squeezed. The reason I didn't feel 100% about them was because they were still kind of stiff and I could feel them where they would create a crease. I felt them more on the inside of my feet, the big toe side. They weren't uncomfortable, though. After breaking them in they fit, I would say, pretty close to perfect. The standard width (D) in the 65 was a no go because it was pretty tight around my toes.

The Lake Bluff loafers are a little weird to explain. I tried them on in store, in both a 10.5 E and 10 EEE, and they fit pretty much the same. The 10.5 E fit a little snug, but nothing a little bit of breaking in wouldn't have helped. I went with the 10 EEE because the length was still ok, but I felt extremely comfortable with them right off the bat. The sales associate told me that 10.5 E and 10 EEE are basically the same size - they are "sister sizes".

Please correct me if I'm wrong (based on what I've mentioned, what I've gathered from you and this forum, and with an understanding that I am looking at standard width sizes):

Rain - After a break in period, a 9.5 UK should fit me pretty nicely?
Inca - Pretty similar to the Rain?
Forest - *Edit*: Of the 4 lasts, most likely to fit well in a 9.5 UK, but going up half a size to a 10 UK should also fit nicely?
Simpson - Going with a 10 UK might work, but there's no guarantee it will be satisfactory compared to the other 3 lasts?

Once again, thank you so much for your help.

 

[jet-stream]

I was thinking that the Simpson would be the biggest problem for me, because from what I've been reading on these forums, it's the most narrow of the lasts listed. I just want to be on the safe side.

When I first got my Park and 5th avenues, they fit pretty good. I didn't feel like my toes were being squeezed. The reason I didn't feel 100% about them was because they were still kind of stiff and I could feel them where they would create a crease. I felt them more on the inside of my feet, the big toe side. They weren't uncomfortable, though. After breaking them in they fit, I would say, pretty close to perfect. The standard width (D) in the 65 was a no go because it was pretty tight around my toes.

The Lake Bluff loafers are a little weird to explain. I tried them on in store, in both a 10.5 E and 10 EEE, and they fit pretty much the same. The 10.5 E fit a little snug, but nothing a little bit of breaking in wouldn't have helped. I went with the 10 EEE because the length was still ok, but I felt extremely comfortable with them right off the bat. The sales associate told me that 10.5 E and 10 EEE are basically the same size - they are "sister sizes".

Please correct me if I'm wrong (based on what I've mentioned, what I've gathered from you and this forum, and with an understanding that I am looking at standard width sizes):

Rain - After a break in period, a 9.5 UK should fit me pretty nicely?
Inca - Pretty similar to the Rain?
Forest - *Edit*: Of the 4 lasts, most likely to fit well in a 9.5 UK, but going up half a size to a 10 UK should also fit nicely?
Simpson - Going with a 10 UK might work, but there's no guarantee it will be satisfactory compared to the other 3 lasts?

Once again, thank you so much for your help.

Happy to help!

Your summary is pretty accurate, including going up a half size on Simpson; that would still be a bit lower-volume than, say, Inca - but it would be close.

The only “but” is that some have reported the Inca doesn’t work for hem because it tapers too much on the big toe side. Based on your description of the Parks, this could be an issue for you - the Inca taper is more aggressive than the 65. Still could work, but be aware.

I would probably still start with 9.5 in Forest.

 

[useless_username]

I tend to agree with ttown, though it may depend on details. Which C&J lasts? I don’t have much experience with Trickers, but in general the Forest last is pretty true to size.

Thanks TtownMD and jet-stream.

My 10.5 C&J shoes are on last 236 (Oxford) and 314 (loafer).

 

[jet-stream]

Thanks TtownMD and jet-stream.

My 10.5 C&J shoes are on last 236 (Oxford) and 314 (loafer).

That’s interesting - I think of Forest and the 236 as quite similar (same boat as AE 511) - all very TTS. My instinct says stick with 10.5, but obviously you know your feet better. I’d be less surprised if you were having toe box room with Inca (big toe) or Rain (little toes), though.

 

[TtownMD]

That’s interesting - I think of Forest and the 236 as quite similar (same boat as AE 511) - all very TTS. My instinct says stick with 10.5, but obviously you know your feet better. I’d be less surprised if you were having toe box room with Inca (big toe) or Rain (little toes), though.

Totally agree with you. He can do whatever he likes. But I would say stick to your regular uk size. Unless it’s a Boot & you want to wear thick boot socks.

 

[useless_username]

Thanks again. I think I'll do one more fitting with the 10.5 and 11, before I make my final decision.

I'm surprised the 11 feels better, as I've never had size 11 shoes! But when I tried them on, the 10.5 felt too tight. I felt like my toes were squeezed tightly together, which is never a good sign.

 

[TtownMD]

Thanks again. I think I'll do one more fitting with the 10.5 and 11, before I make my final decision.

I'm surprised the 11 feels better, as I've never had size 11 shoes! But when I tried them on, the 10.5 felt too tight. I felt like my toes were squeezed tightly together, which is never a good sign.

We are giving you general recommendation. And that’s what size is recommended for the last you are buying. But end of a day you are wearing your shoes. So go with which ever works for you. And you are the only one who can make that decision. Hope this helps and good luck.

 

[NocheOscura]

This is an update, and I hope it serves somebody well.

For reference, I am a US 10.5 E in the Brannock device. My right foot is in between a 10 and a 10.5. My left foot is a true 10.5. My right foot is slightly wider than my left foot, closer to a 2E. My feet are widest at the ball. I have a pretty average instep, if not below. I started out with Allen Edmonds in the 65 last, US 10.5 E. D width makes it impossible to wear those shoes, but the E width makes these shoes near perfect after break in. Before break in, they were the tiniest bit snug, and I could feel them the most on the inside (big toe side) of my foot. In my left foot, it also felt a little tight in my pinky area, but less so.

I tried on all shoes after a full day of walking, so they were pretty swollen at the time of trying them.

Rain - I tried both a 9.5 UK and a 10 UK in wholecut oxfords and Chelsea boots. They both fit pretty well, but ultimately I went with the 9.5 because my right foot felt wonderful. It might be because the leather is of higher quality and feels more soft and less stiff. It was just the tiniest bit snug on my left foot at the ball (big toe side), but that will change after break in. In the 10, there was a bit of heel slip, mostly in my right foot; however, that also would have been corrected after break in.

Uetam - Because why not? So the thing about the Uetam is that the instep is very low and it is also a pretty narrow last. I tried on a tassel loafer. I didn't even bother trying on the 9.5, so I went with a 10. Let me tell you, it took me a bit of effort to get it on. It was tight. This last is a little too narrow for me. I could possibly see myself getting shoes in this last if they had a G (or EEE?) width fitting.

Simpson - I tried on a 10 UK suede leather oxford. This one fit me pretty nicely. It was snug, slightly more so in my right foot, but it wasn't uncomfortable. There was some heel slippage, but less so than the Rain in 10 UK. I feel that after break in, it would have been a pretty decent fit, though not as nice as the Rain in 9.5. I feel like the suede leather definitely had a part in the shoe not being as snug as it could be in calf or cordovan. I love the way the shoes look in this last, though.

Inca - There weren't any shoes available in the Inca last in either size. However, the owner of the shop assured me that the fit would have been similar to the Rain. He told me that most people who buy shoes in the Rain last get the same size for shoes in the Inca last. He did tell me, however, that the almond shape might affect how my toes feel. That could spell trouble for me.

Forest - There were no shoes available in this last, unfortunately. But based on the information I gathered from this forum and from trying on the other lasts, I feel like either a 9.5 or a 10 would have been a good fit, especially after break in.

I ended up getting the 9.5 UK wholecut Oxfords in the Rain last. Thank you all for your help!!