The Official Artisanal "streetwear" footwear (boots, shoes, sandals) thread (Guidi, CCP, Augusta, M.

[hendrix]



exactly and its for some reason that those specifics that people get into arguments about sigh

By specifics do you mean the fact that words have different meanings?


I've already explained in this thread, with diagrams, the different definitions "handmade" can have in regards to footwear.

"Made in house" clearly has such a different meaning that I don't see how you could ever use one as a substitute for the other.

 

[sinnedk]



Seriously, you want to have an argument about this?
Here are the quotes:

sorry what did you misunderstand, example i am a shoe designer i outsource someone to make shoes by hand for me (small artisan in italy maybe)

why are people so nit picky here?

 

[Abraxis]

I just said they weren't made in house nothing about hand made or not. The two terms are orthogonal. Things can be hand made in house or partially hand made or machine made.

Outsourced to a factory (Whether that factory hand makes or not) != made in house. That's my understanding of how m.a.+/ccp/augusta/carpe/etc. boots are made. I could be wrong, but numerous sources (Which I can provide if anyone cares) and folks who have had first hand accounts with the designers or other industry figures have confirmed this as well.

Basically a few Italian factories make all these boots and other brands as well. Doesn't mean they all are made by the same machine or of the same quality. Clearly there are different gradings of craftsmanship and also different QC standards, but while Simone/others may do some of the treatment and elements of the production in house.... downplaying the external factory involvement is misleading.

I did say that I think what I believe sinnedk wants to believe that the shoes he thinks are top most tier (CCP/Augusta/m.a.+/Carpe) are all made in house and hand made by the designer themselves in a one man operations with the most rigorous and technically challenging techniques and known to made out of insane materials.

Like docus, I think he, as many others on gear forums, has a pathological need to build some sort of quality hierarchy or mythos where what they are into stands at the top of the pyramid and validates their taste. They fetishize this ****.

So when some retailer, as his unnamed source turned out to be, tells him "Yes it is as you believe Augusta and CCP are made in house!" he seizes on that and parrots it to others because that's what he wants to hear.

It just didn't come across that he was cognizant of the fact that a retailer is not the most reliable source since fundamentally they want to sell you things and may feed into what they think you want to hear to accomplish just that.

Potentially he was aware of that internally, but shrug people react to how you come across and not what you meant in your head. Hence why people are all sandy all the time towards him.

Final wall of text from me on this

 

[Mr. Moo]

Shoes can be made in house, by machines.
Shoes can be made in house, by hand.
Shoes can be outsourced, made by machines.
Shoes can be outsourced, yet made by hand.

What is the problem?

 

[Mr. Moo]

hendrix, I am only responding to brad-t's comment that "In house does not mean made by hand." That is it. And, of course, that is an absolute statement, and it's wrong.

 

[hendrix]



hendrix, I am only responding to brad-t's comment that "In house does not mean made by hand." That is it. And, of course, that is an absolute statement, and it's wrong.

No it's not wrong. Reading comprehension please.
"this does not mean that"
is not the same as saying "this and that are mutually exclusive"

"In house does not mean made by hand" is not the same as saying "in house means they are not made by hand".


anyway, I agree wholeheartedly with this:
he, as many others on gear forums, has a pathological need to build some sort of quality hierarchy or mythos where what they are into stands at the top of the pyramid and validates their taste.

This behaviour needs to end.

 

[sinnedk]



Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

I just said they weren't made in house nothing about hand made or not. The two terms are orthogonal. Things can be hand made in house or partially hand made or machine made.
Outsourced to a factory (Whether that factory hand makes or not) != made in house. That's my understanding of how m.a.+/ccp/augusta/carpe/etc. boots are made. I could be wrong, but numerous sources (Which I can provide if anyone cares) and folks who have had first hand accounts with the designers or other industry figures have confirmed this as well.
Basically a few Italian factories make all these boots and other brands as well. Doesn't mean they all are made by the same machine or of the same quality. Clearly there are different gradings of craftsmanship and also different QC standards, but while Simone/others may do some of the treatment and elements of the production in house.... downplaying the external factory involvement is misleading.
I did say that I think what I believe sinnedk wants to believe that the shoes he thinks are top most tier (CCP/Augusta/m.a.+/Carpe) are all made in house and hand made by the designer themselves in a one man operations with the most rigorous and technically challenging techniques and known to made out of insane materials.
Like docus, I think he, as many others on gear forums, has a pathological need to build some sort of quality hierarchy or mythos where what they are into stands at the top of the pyramid and validates their taste.
So when some retailer, as his unnamed source turned out to be, tells him "Yes it is as you believe Augusta and CCP are made in house!" he seizes on that and parrots it to others because that's what he wants to hear.
It just didn't come across that he was cognizant of the fact that a retailer is not the most reliable source since fundamentally they want to sell you things and may feed into what they think you want to hear to accomplish just that.
Potentially he was aware of that internally, but shrug people react to how you come across and not what you meant in your head. Hence why people are all sandy all the time towards him.
Final wall of text from me on this

Abraxis putting a smiley face at the end of your paragraph doesn't make you any less of a douche. i was interested about the process and it has been cleared up at this point. i doubt i come off as anything other than curious these days so STFU.

Shoes can be made in house, by machines.
Shoes can be made in house, by hand.
Shoes can be outsourced, made by machines.
Shoes can be outsourced, yet made by hand.
What is the problem?

you know if someone posted a combo of the above to describe ccp or augusta when i was asking we could of saved numerous dumb arguments and comments from ppl

 

[bows1]

Burn this thread to the ******* ground

 

[brad-t]

I wasn't saying those two things can never coincide, just that they weren't the same nor do they guarantee each other.

 

[RFX45]

My head hurts.

 

[Abraxis]



Abraxis putting a smiley face at the end of your paragraph doesn't make you any less of a douche. i was interested about the process and it has been cleared up at this point. i doubt i come off as anything other than curious these days so STFU.
you know if someone posted a combo of the above to describe ccp or augusta when i was asking we could of saved numerous dumb arguments and comments from ppl

This doesn't seem so much like asking or showing interest in the process or just being curious. It seems like a lot like telling people what's up.

[NOWALLTEXTONLYWALLOFQUOTES]

FYI i just confirmed all CCP stuff is made in-house by carol w/assistance of studio staff, same as a1923

Confirmed with who?

i have a source, dont worry about it

 

[TintoTerra]

Can we have less Sinnedk/moo bitching and more pics of shoes please?

 

[gettoasty]

Can someone start posting gray/olive colorways preferably in suede that Guidi can access? Going to pickup a backzip come Feb.

TIA!

Oh, and here are some boot photos I have saved

 

[brad-t]

what are those black wedges? drool

 

[gettoasty]

RO or Visvim depending on the one you're referring to

OR

D.Co Copenhagen are the all blacks on 2nd row