1. And... we're back. You'll notice that all of your images are back as well, as are our beloved emoticons, including the infamous :foo: We have also worked with our server folks and developers to fix the issues that were slowing down the site.

    There is still work to be done - the images in existing sigs are not yet linked, for example, and we are working on a way to get the images to load faster - which will improve the performance of the site, especially on the pages with a ton of images, and we will continue to work diligently on that and keep you updated.

    Cheers,

    Fok on behalf of the entire Styleforum team
    Dismiss Notice

The New Official Wolf vs. Goat Thread

Discussion in 'Streetwear and Denim' started by fosho, Oct 12, 2009.

Tags:
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. irbe

    irbe Senior member

    Messages:
    2,523
    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2006
    Lemon Drop for the yellow shirt, disregard my "Big Bird Yellow" as I didn't know it had to be food items.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2014
  2. notwithit

    notwithit Senior member

    Messages:
    7,721
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2010
    Location:
    New Gentrificationland
    

    Dumb question - do you need an invite to sign up for Instagram? I see a link to log in but no option to sign up.
     
  3. Kehar001

    Kehar001 Active Member

    Messages:
    26
    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2013
    I believe you have to download the app on a mobile device and sign up from there. You can only log in to an existing account from a regular web browser.
     
  4. quadomatic

    quadomatic Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    78
    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2011
    Just noticed Gustin drops their chinos Tuesday as well. Competition is fierce.
     
  5. cyc wid it

    cyc wid it Senior member

    Messages:
    10,210
    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2011
    Location:
    Bay Area, CA
    I don't think there's much...
     
    1 person likes this.
  6. Mauro

    Mauro Senior member Affiliate Vendor

    Messages:
    13,106
    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2006
    Location:
    Washington, DC and a few months out of the year in
    

    I personally don't think we are even close. It's one thing to boost quality its another to deliver. Fashion is subjective. Quality standards are not. I really like what Gustin is doing in terms of their business model. Outside of that it stops. I read somewhere Kiya ( owner of Self Edge ) talking about denim production and I had to agree with him. You can use the same factories as other reputable brands but that doesn't mean every jean coming out of that factory is going to be the same. The standards are set by the designer. The factory wants to bang out clothing. They want to get the job done ASAP. It's the designer or brands job to have rigorous quality control and understanding of what they want done to a product. We can talk about this in length if you want.
    I read a a forbes article on Gustin. They said they wholesale to the public but it's crowd sourced. WvG wholesales to the public but has a reward membership. They claim a 50% mark up, I am usually not that lucky. This to me is where stuff gets fuzzy. If you make a shirt in the U.S.A. and it's made in a quality factory there is no way in hell you are paying less than $25.00 a shirt. This is probably low. I personally pay between $32.00 and $65.00 per shirt depending on the garment and the quantity. Now fabric. As we all are aware fabric prices range from $1.99 to $100+ dollars a yard. Then you have trim if you aren't doing a package deal. You still haven't touched the washing of the fabric , shipping, and over head. Reading the article Gustin's over head is slim like mine but if you add this up the math doesn't make sense.
    Gustin boost a premium fabric shirt made in the USA for $69.00 and they make a 50% margin. This means that the shirt cost them 34.50.
    How can this be?
    1. They aren't using the fabric they claim
    2. The factory isn't paying above board
    3. The quality of work simply isn't there
    4. The trim isn't quality
    5. They are sleeping with their shipping agents because shipping is EXPENSIVE
    6. They could use jobber ( which is fine) but that means they could be using 2nd run fabric
    7. They using yummy buzzwords to make you want there product

    It takes 2.3 yards to makes a shirt using narrow width goods. 1.75 to 2 yard for wide width goods. A gross of 18L pearl buttons could cost around 20.00 and up. So .14 cents a button,let's say the same for tags and patches. Construction is $25.00 let's say and shipping is a couple bucks per shirt.
    Let's make the fabric real crap at $2.00 per yard.
    The shirt would be $30.78 would be the cost using wide width shit goods from India or China.

    I am not bashing Gustin. I like what they are doing in terms of promoting business and changing how the consumer can buy but they aren't a 3sixteen, Flathead,Raleigh , Nudie, or RRL ( I wanted a wide variety of different brands). They are more like Naked and Famous. A good jean but not a great jean. I have never seen one of their shirts in real life. The fit can be spot on and that's great but everything else seems a bit fuzzy from an insiders view.

    Another note a selvage chambray from a reputable mill starts shipped not F.O.B. is around $12.00 per yard and goes up into the high 20.00's and could go up to the 50.00's. Selvage is narrow goods so about 2.3 to 2.5 yards to make a shirt depending on your pattern and your marking it could take 3 yards.

    Here is an honest and fair example of a selvage donegal chambray I am making this summer. The fabric is coming from Japan shipped at $19.00 a yard. It takes 2.5 yards to make calculating shrinkage. $32.00 to sew. A few bucks for shipping. .50 for trim. If I choose to wash it we will add $1.50 per shirt.
    Total cost of the shirt to make $83.00. I will sell the $165.00. Retail for $330.00, I have 82.00 of profit. That's a crazy fair price for a REAL unique premium fabric made in a American. I have to eat and Mia needs new shoes.

    Again, I am not disrespecting Gustin. I like what they are doing. They are probably cool guys. I just don't want WvG to be pigeon holed by pricing from the rewards membership. I really do use some sweet expensive fabrics and some of the best factories with strict standards.
    I would like to think "quality remains long after price is forgotten."
    I did steal that quote but it really is what I believe.
     
    13 people like this.
  7. quadomatic

    quadomatic Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    78
    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2011
    Thanks for the explanation Mauro. I wasn't aware of the difference. Hopefully this comes through to people more as Wolf vs Goat gets more exposure.

    Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
     
  8. Mauro

    Mauro Senior member Affiliate Vendor

    Messages:
    13,106
    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2006
    Location:
    Washington, DC and a few months out of the year in
    My pleasure. As G.I. Joe says " Knowing is half the battle."

    Again by no means was I trying to bash Gustin. I wish them the best and I do like their business Model.
     
  9. quadomatic

    quadomatic Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    78
    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2011
    Do you have any plans to make chinos with slim thighs and a tapered/skinny leg in the future?

    Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
     
  10. Klemins

    Klemins Senior member

    Messages:
    1,101
    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2006
    That's some good info on production. How drastic can the production costs be for different quantities? I know most factories have minimums, but is there any way Gustin is simply producing more and in turn saving money, even if the fabric costs remain the same?

    edit: To be fair, many of their shirts, especially selvage chambrays, are actually $99 and not $69.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2014
  11. cyc wid it

    cyc wid it Senior member

    Messages:
    10,210
    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2011
    Location:
    Bay Area, CA
    IIRC most factories have a sweet spot for smaller companies. Small enough run to squeeze between the bigger customers, but big enough to maximize opportunity.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2014
  12. Mauro

    Mauro Senior member Affiliate Vendor

    Messages:
    13,106
    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2006
    Location:
    Washington, DC and a few months out of the year in
    

    I was only speaking about the $69.00. A quality chambray fabric from Italy, Japan, or the U.S. is simply more than 12.00 a yard. Like, I said the chambray I am using for was $19.00 a yard.
    Don't say you are using the best fabrics if you really aren't using THE BEST fabrics. Take Ledbury they off set their fabric costs with their sewing costs. They don't sew here in the states they sew in Poland, Romania, or some other 3 world EU country. Nothing wrong with that at all. They use good fabric and tell you if it's Thomas Mason Italy or England for example.

    I use to use a jobber that EG and a couple other people use but when I found out the guy wasn't being 100% honest with his fabrics I stopped. Now I only use him if he is jobbing fabric from Gitman or someone like that so there is validity to the cloth and with the reward program the price is beyond fair.

    Productions minimums are weird. The factory I believe Gustin uses is 300 pair minimum. There is the possibility they give the factory so much work that they can sneak in smaller production runs. I think a price break would occur around 750 pair or 500 pair but the cost isn't drastic for CMT. Fabric minimums start breaking around 1,000 yards but someone like Cone White oak asks for 5,000 yards per fabric. This is why a lot of designers use Japanese fabric because they dont give a fuck who they sell to and their methods of smaller yardage to more people make sense. A good example of the was the sno-cone fabric. I believe that fabric is around 10.00 per yard. So you can see why the shirt was $300 by slowear. The Americans and Europeans ask for much higher minimums. I use a few Japanese mills and they sell by the roll. A roll is 50 to 66 yards. If you buy under 1,000 yards you ship by air. Over 1,000 yards you may ship by vessel which is much cheaper than air but takes about 6 weeks to arrive and clear customs. Air is two weeks and then it ship UPS to the factory. This is why I say shipping is expensive. That shit adds up.
    If anyone has questions about total costs ask away. Just remember my over head is crazy low and my payroll is low and because I honestly wholesale to the rewards members my margins are very fair. Even if I added some cushion into my costs the prices still would be totally fair.

    On a side note I am wearing the new chinos and I love them. A client stopped by and picked up a pair with 2 new over dyes. I will get measurements on the over dyes and the chino before tuesday 29th 3pm est.
     
    5 people like this.
  13. JasonYeckel

    JasonYeckel Senior member

    Messages:
    145
    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2013
    Mauro you rule thanks for all this information!
     
  14. tobiasfunke

    tobiasfunke Senior member

    Messages:
    401
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2011
    1) Any new SS before dinners on the horizon?

    2) What kind of fabric will you be using for the v-neck tees--same as the roll neck?
     
  15. Mauro

    Mauro Senior member Affiliate Vendor

    Messages:
    13,106
    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2006
    Location:
    Washington, DC and a few months out of the year in
    

    1. Several SS dropping very soon including a SS pop over

    2. V-necks will be 100% supima cotton garment dyed with enzymes.
     
  16. stafa

    stafa Senior member

    Messages:
    379
    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2012
    I know as a business owner how much it can suck to keep cash tied up in inventory, but do you plan on having some of the more basic color tees consistently in stock?
     
  17. CPaul

    CPaul Senior member

    Messages:
    460
    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2011
    The quality is not anywhere near yours on the shirts. I sold mine as soon as i opened the package.
     
  18. sharkminusbear

    sharkminusbear Senior member

    Messages:
    186
    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2012
    Location:
    Alexandria, VA
    I got to try out the new chinos coming out soon, they are on the slim side. They are not a skinny fit but the thighs are pretty slim and the leg opening is also tapered a bit. They fit me better than my epaulet rivet chinos, and definitely have a slimmer leg opening than those.
     
  19. CPaul

    CPaul Senior member

    Messages:
    460
    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2011
    The only reason I'd go with the gustins is I like my pants on the slimmer size.
     
    1 person likes this.
  20. chickenfark

    chickenfark Senior member

    Messages:
    223
    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2013
    What is jobbing? Google isn't coming up with anything for me.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

Styleforum is proudly sponsored by