The New Brooks Brothers

[clee1982]

Funny because I had a **** ton of the non-iron slim fit shirts dating back to like 2008 also. I've started donating them since most of my shirts are now bespoke.

I think I bought my first working shirt from BB with the 3 for $149 back in 2007? I have no idea what happened to them, think I consigned to Luxeswap some time like 2012...?

 

[Galix]

Just out of curiosity, from someone in Europe with a different attachment to the brand than Americans have. Who is taking over BB's spot? I guess there's still a relatively big preppy / Ivy League style market out there.

I own quite a few items from BB from when I've been visiting the States, and really like them. Especially their Regent casual shirts, which IMO are almost the perfect shirts to take with when going on vacation. Also their Milano chinos are amazing, in my top 3.

 

[dieworkwear]

Just out of curiosity, from someone in Europe with a different attachment to the brand than Americans have. Who is taking over BB's spot? I guess there's still a relatively big preppy / Ivy League style market out there.

I own quite a few items from BB from when I've been visiting the States, and really like them. Especially their Regent casual shirts, which IMO are almost the perfect shirts to take with when going on vacation. Also their Milano chinos are amazing, in my top 3.

I don't think anyone occupies the space that Brooks Brothers once occupied. It wasn't just that they sold preppy clothes. Brooks Brothers was special in how they shaped American style, their relationship between sales associates and customers, and their relationship to a certain American class.

Ralph Lauren comes closest to that history but is still very far off.

The world in which Brooks Brothers once occupied has mostly moved on, I think. That's partly the reason for their downfall.

 

[Galix]

I don't think anyone occupies the space that Brooks Brothers once occupied. It wasn't just that they sold preppy clothes. Brooks Brothers was special in how they shaped American style, their relationship between sales associates and customers, and their relationship to a certain American class.

Ralph Lauren comes closest to that history but is still very far off.

The world in which Brooks Brothers once occupied has mostly moved on, I think. That's partly the reason for their downfall.

I see. Your last statement really makes sense, I didn't think about it in that way; a little bit wistful indeed.

 

[TheChihuahua]

Just out of curiosity, from someone in Europe with a different attachment to the brand than Americans have. Who is taking over BB's spot? I guess there's still a relatively big preppy / Ivy League style market out there.

I own quite a few items from BB from when I've been visiting the States, and really like them. Especially their Regent casual shirts, which IMO are almost the perfect shirts to take with when going on vacation. Also their Milano chinos are amazing, in my top 3.

i would say:
- For the price, a variety of made to measure or custom options have emerged.
- for off the rack, brands like Spier and mackay and Charles tyrwhitt and tm Lewis and hawed and Curtis. Off the rack options at half the price.

brooks brothers fell into this bad spot where their price level was being intruded upon by made to measure/custom fit options, while the off the rack offerings for half the price were improving in quality.

it’s no longer necessary to go to a store and try things on, so the brick and mortar presence of brooks brothers has lost its premium value.

 

[dieworkwear]

If you're after that classic BB look, there are some companies that can supply it. Would not say that Spier & Mackay fits that kind of look. O'Connell's, Andover Shop, J. Press, etc are in that BB world. But again, Brooks was about more than just a look. I think it occupied a very special place in American clothing history.

People who are purists about this stuff will think a lot of RL is pastiche. I think that's true, but I grew up wanting to wear RL, not Brooks Brothers. I think when I was young, that BB world was also already in decline.

 

[TheChihuahua]

If you're after that classic BB look, there are some companies that can supply it. Would not say that Spier & Mackay fits that kind of look. O'Connell's, Andover Shop, J. Press, etc are in that BB world. But again, Brooks was about more than just a look. I think it occupied a very special place in American clothing history.

People who are purists about this stuff will think a lot of RL is pastiche. I think that's true, but I grew up wanting to wear RL, not Brooks Brothers. I think when I was young, that BB world was also already in decline.

In the last 15 years most of my suits have been brooks brothers (albeit their lower lines). In the last year i have bought a few Spier and mackay and Charles tyrwhitt. The SM is just as good as far as I’m concerned. (Note,I wear suits hard and just need daily wear suits, and the SM is very good for this).

so as far as occupying the space, brooks brothers lost a pretty loyal customer (at least 10+ years ago loyal) to SM. Price much better for comparable quality.

not sure regarding the look. Brooks brothers is generally just a solid professional look. Not like tit was a unique fashion forward look.

 

[dieworkwear]

In the last 15 years most of my suits have been brooks brothers (albeit their lower lines). In the last year i have bought a few Spier and mackay and Charles tyrwhitt. The SM is just as good as far as I’m concerned. (Note,I wear suits hard and just need daily wear suits, and the SM is very good for this).

so as far as occupying the space, brooks brothers lost a pretty loyal customer (at least 10+ years ago loyal) to SM. Price much better for comparable quality.

not sure regarding the look. Brooks brothers is generally just a solid professional look. Not like tit was a unique fashion forward look.

I think this is because Brooks in the last 10 - 15 years has become something like a watered down Italian store, and Spier & Mackay has copied an Italian look. If you look at Brooks Brothers prior to the 1980s, that's when people consider it to be the company's "Golden Age."

 

[TheChihuahua]

I think this is because Brooks in the last 10 - 15, years has become something like a watered down Italian store, and Spier & Mackay has copied an Italian look. If you look at Brooks Brothers prior to the 1980s, that's when people consider it to be the company's "Golden Age."

No argument.
I guess I was more focused on utilitarian purpose and departure of part of their customer base - mainly day to day wear professional attire.

and while I’m not a huge Spier McKay advocate (I appreciate them for what they are), but if you look past their more colorful banner ads they have plenty of conservative looking work suits.

but yeah, in terms of an American legend, well... Spier and McKay is Canadian (LOL). Brooks Brothers is a legend.

 

[TheChihuahua]

By the way, the Spier McKay thread might be the most active thread on this board right now. How much of that business going into that thread would have been brooks brothers walk in business 20 years ago? In terms of simply occupying the consumer space, it’s that class of option that has really put a dent in brooks brothers

not just SM, but the rise in quality of the $300-600 off the rack suits by many brands available online compared to brooks brothers off the rack quality at double ir triple the price. Somebody looking for a 3 suit rotation for work, why go to brooks brothers when charles tyrwhitt is just as easy to access with a couple clicks of a mouse?

 

[dieworkwear]

By the way, the Spier McKay thread might be the most active thread on this board right now. How much of that business going into that thread would have been brooks brothers walk in business 20 years ago? In terms of simply occupying the consumer space, it’s that class of option that has really put a dent in brooks brothers

not just SM, but the rise in quality of the $300-600 off the rack suits by many brands available online compared to brooks brothers off the rack quality at double ir triple the price. Somebody looking for a 3 suit rotation for work, why go to brooks brothers when charles tyrwhitt is just as easy to access with a couple clicks of a mouse?

For one, S&M's business is a tiny, minuscule fraction of Brooks Brothers. Even if they got all the S&M orders and more, it would have added little to their business. In the last seven years or so, Brooks Brothers sales have hovered around $1 billion globally.

Second, S&M's business relies on a customer base that prefers Italian styling. Part of Brooks Brothers' problem is that it chased this sort of market -- guys who like Italian style, are discount hunters, etc. Perhaps old Brooks also wouldn't have survived in this world, but the new business model also isn't working. Ultimately, they have too many stores. The problem is driven by real estate and size.

Brooks Brothers should not be compared to Charles Tyrwhitt, Spier & Mackay, Untuckit, Bonobos, Suitsupply, etc. One of their problems is that they're being compared to these brands. It's an impossible game to win once your products have become commodities.

 

[TheChihuahua]

Hey, as a long time brooks brothers customer, who has probably owned more brooks brothers than any other brand in my life, I’m just provided what I am observing. They lost me as a customer. Just providing my own insight why. I’m sure there are lots of others like me who left for similar reasons.

your view of brooks brothers might not be what all their customers utilized the brand for. So there are a variety of reasons why they lost this business. Neither one of us is wrong, but rather just highlighting different (and both valid) reasons why it happened.

 

[othertravel]

For one, S&M's business is a tiny, minuscule fraction of Brooks Brothers. Even if they got all the S&M orders and more, it would have added little to their business. In the last seven years or so, Brooks Brothers sales have hovered around $1 billion globally.

Second, S&M's business relies on a customer base that prefers Italian styling. Part of Brooks Brothers' problem is that it chased this sort of market -- guys who like Italian style, are discount hunters, etc. Perhaps old Brooks also wouldn't have survived in this world, but the new business model also isn't working. Ultimately, they have too many stores. The problem is driven by real estate and size.

Brooks Brothers should not be compared to Charles Tyrwhitt, Spier & Mackay, Untuckit, Bonobos, Suitsupply, etc. One of their problems is that they're being compared to these brands. It's an impossible game to win once your products have become commodities.

You're right. At $1B, they're comparable to Tom Ford in terms of gross revenue.

That said, TF has a much smaller retail footprint, and a very different style.

 

[clee1982]

TF has $1b gross revenue for such a small brand, good for them...

 

[Texasmade]

TF has $1b gross revenue for such a small brand, good for them...

They sell a **** ton of accessories like glasses, fragrances, and makeup and skin care. Supposedly the makeup and skincare make up a large portion of their sales.