The New Brooks Brothers

[TheChihuahua]

Switching gears:
I think brooks brothers does have the best conservative professional options for women. It’s better than similarly priced brands, and it is more appropriate for day to day office wear for females than the more expensive designer wear that is more highlighted event focused than a day to day reliable option.

I think their men’s offerings in the day to day professional realm actually are still solid. Problem is (A) other brands offer similar quality at a lower price, or (B) for the price of a brooks brothers off the rack suit you can order a made to measure suit from elsewhere. Not sure wherethe value of buying a brooks brother suit exists these days.
And I fear Paul Stuart isn’t too far behind brooks brothers in this respect (losing their place in the market)

 

[Phileas Fogg]

And I fear Paul Stuart isn’t too far behind brooks brothers in this respect (losing their place in the market)

Paul Stuart’s overall foot print is much, much smaller. Almost niche. They have certainly changed stylistically but if you actually go into a Paul Stuart shop you’ll see that they have a large selection of very classic clothing. The website seems to feature some of the bolder options.

 

[TheChihuahua]

Paul Stuart’s overall foot print is much, much smaller. Almost niche. They have certainly changed stylistically but if you actually go into a Paul Stuart shop you’ll see that they have a large selection of very classic clothing. The website seems to feature some of the bolder options.

I used to work a block north of their Madison Avenue store. Frequently visited. Real big fan of Paul Stuart in general. Have a lot of ties and a tuxedo from their store.

I don’t know though, I just fear that market is shrinking so fast. Why spend $2-3k on a suit from Paul Stuart when you can order a made to measure from Alan Flusser for the same price, if not cheaper? And how big is the $250 tie market these days?

 

[Waldo Jeffers]

It sounds like Banana Republic, but maybe that's where things will end up.

Banana Republic + OCBD + some 1818 suits

yeah, it could be a nicer version of that

aesthetically I think that kind of sucks but from a business standpoint what else can they do?

even wall st is business casual now

 

[Waldo Jeffers]

When I think of the worst aspect of brooks brothers I think of their business casual line. Khaki pants with button down shirts with no style at all, screaming middle management getting through the day with as little effort as possible.
As much as I blame the acceptance of business casual for contributing to the dumbing down of America, I blame companies like brooks brothers for making it even more unbearable for their complete lack of effort to add any style to “biz caj” at all.

I don’t think BB ever drove style

they were just trying to give their customers what they thought they wanted

but then they also had this anchor of tradition around their neck and their core customers didn’t want them to ever change at all

They could probably do good khakis like RRL but their old customers would probably get annoyed and think it was weird and their new customers wouldn’t want to pay that much

in a lot of ways, RL demonstrated how you could keep the same aesthetic relevant over time, even at a large scale. BB just wasn’t as creative

 

[Phileas Fogg]

The last time I was at Paul Stuart the SA I work with told me their fastest growing segment was made to measure.

Suits have gone from staples in a professional man’s wardrobe to a specialty item. I think the market is reflecting that shift.

 

[Phileas Fogg]

I don’t think BB ever drove style

they were just trying to give their customers what they thought they wanted

but then they also had this anchor of tradition around their neck and their core customers didn’t want them to ever change at all

They could probably do good khakis like RRL but their old customers would probably get annoyed and think it was weird and their new customers wouldn’t want to pay that much

in a lot of ways, RL demonstrated how you could keep the same aesthetic relevant over time. BB just wasn’t as creative

I tend to agree. Whether it reflects the reality, it’s the feeling I get too.

I think it goes back to who is at the top. RL is still guided in some ways by its founder. The founders vision is still relevant. It doesn’t really appear as though Brooks Brothers had such a vision.

 

[Waldo Jeffers]

The last time I was at Paul Stuart the SA I work with told me their fastest growing segment was made to measure.

Suits have gone from staples in a professional man’s wardrobe to a specialty item. I think the market is reflecting that shift.

it’s getting to the point where you maybe only need 1 suit even in most professional jobs and soon you might not even need that

if suits are no longer expected in interviews (which is probably already the case in many industries) then most men will simply have no need for them at all

if we’re not there yet, it’s probably only a few years away at this point

 

[TheChihuahua]

I don’t think BB ever drove style

they were just trying to give their customers what they thought they wanted

but then they also had this anchor of tradition around their neck and their core customers didn’t want them to ever change at all

They could probably do good khakis like RRL but their old customers would probably get annoyed and think it was weird and their new customers wouldn’t want to pay that much

in a lot of ways, RL demonstrated how you could keep the same aesthetic relevant over time, even at a large scale. BB just wasn’t as creative

i agree

which is why I think brooks brothers is such a disaster in “biz caj life.”
When biz caj came about 20 years ago, it was pretty much “wear dress pants with a button down shirt but no need for a tie or jacket and khakis are ok in place of dress pants...”

man’s brooks brothers hopped into that role of generic biz caj clothes. But brooks brothers wasn’t capable of adjusting or realizing that particular subset of biz caj is low brow, or realizing (and failure to prepare) That there would be a new world of elegant business casual wear that would evolve

so theyended up with a more expensive version of khakis and button downs that people could just buy at Macy’s for a fraction of the cost, and people who wanted to spend on clothes in this genre had more fashion forward options to look at. They became the staple of middle management drones with no upward mobility because their executives in charge of this segment had no talent or ambition themselves.

their identity wasn’t biz caj. It was upstanding professional wear. They failed to adjust to the changing market for their higher end stuff, and their middle management professional wear was subpar (especially for the price).

 

[TheChihuahua]

It’s funny, I was looking in my closet earlier. I still have some brooks brothers dress shirts. Have to be at least 14 years old, I don’t think I’ve bought a dress shirt from them since 2008.
They are very well made. Fantastic quality in my opinion. BUT.... I never wear them. Why? I have my shirts made to measure now, they are just as well made but fit much better. And they don’t cost anymore than brooks brothers options.

why go to brooks brothers for a poor fitting dress shirt when you can just go to Spier and Mckay for custom fitting shirts and save some money in the process?

 

[TheChihuahua]

The last time I was at Paul Stuart the SA I work with told me their fastest growing segment was made to measure.

I like to hear that. I want Paul Stuart to succeed. I like that brand and what they stand for.

I like to hear that they are making adjustments to compete with the industry.

 

[Waldo Jeffers]

It’s funny, I was looking in my closet earlier. I still have some brooks brothers dress shirts. Have to be at least 14 years old, I don’t think I’ve bought a dress shirt from them since 2008.
They are very well made. Fantastic quality in my opinion. BUT.... I never wear them. Why? I have my shirts made to measure now, they are just as well made but fit much better. And they don’t cost anymore than brooks brothers options.

why go to brooks brothers for a poor fitting dress shirt when you can just go to Spier and Mckay for custom fitting shirts and save some money in the process?

the fit was a huge problem for them and especially once MTM became common

they have all of the core components to be relevant to modern life. The ivy style is basically like a more elegant version of biz casual.

 

[dukenukem4ever]

any updates on the new brooks brothers? preview of their designs? they are still sending me 50% - 75% off sale notifications every day in my inbox and phone...

 

[Texasmade]

It’s funny, I was looking in my closet earlier. I still have some brooks brothers dress shirts. Have to be at least 14 years old, I don’t think I’ve bought a dress shirt from them since 2008.
They are very well made. Fantastic quality in my opinion. BUT.... I never wear them. Why? I have my shirts made to measure now, they are just as well made but fit much better. And they don’t cost anymore than brooks brothers options.

why go to brooks brothers for a poor fitting dress shirt when you can just go to Spier and Mckay for custom fitting shirts and save some money in the process?

Funny because I had a **** ton of the non-iron slim fit shirts dating back to like 2008 also. I've started donating them since most of my shirts are now bespoke.

 

[Mark Seitelman]

It's kind of strange to think of BB having a bespoke department nowadays.

Good point. Sad and true.