The Made-to-Measure Thread

[bdavro23]

Hrm, why is the bolded a bad thing? I don't understand.

Well, for one thing, it's against almost all manufacturing terms to publish their wholesale pricing publicly. Second, as I stated there may be vendors or customers on this forum who use those manufacturers, and it's kind of a **** you to discuss their cost structure in public. Honestly, I thought this would be pretty obvious.

 

[FlyingHorker]

Well, for one thing, it's against almost all manufacturing terms to publish their wholesale pricing publicly. Second, as I stated there may be vendors or customers on this forum who use those manufacturers, and it's kind of a **** you to discuss their cost structure in public. Honestly, I thought this would be pretty obvious.

To elaborate, I don't understand why it's against almost all manufacturing terms to publish wholesale pricing publicly or cost structure.

Coming from the perspective of your average consumer who knows exactly what the landed cost is when you buy something from a company.

I had always wondered why you'd see online "contact to discuss wholesale pricing" when buying cloth.

 

[induere_to]

Whatever, business is business. If you want to sell at a 10x margin, that's your business. 2.5, cool. Business 101, set your prices for the clientele you want.

On that note, I discussed rough estimates of MANUFACTURING prices and not wholesale prices. Massive difference, as CMT costs are the first thing that's disclosed upon an introductory email inquiring about product manufacturing. Some manufacturing costs are even disclosed on websites.

I edited the prices anyways because even as exaggerated, I'd rather not spread more fake news on a forum for other grown adults on here to use as literal, legitimate information.

 

[othertravel]

Funny story. Was at Harry Rosen, and somebody left a binder on the sales floor titled ‘Confidential Wholesale Prices for XX Brand’, or something to that effect. Was surprised at how low the wholesale price was for this very well known maker (whom I won’t name).

Secondly, somebody at Saks also left out a binder with their wholesale pricing for Zegna. Was surprised at how high the wholesale price was. That said, they looked to me in the 2-2.5 range.

to clarify, the binders were left open on the sales floor. I didn’t go into their back office to rummage documents.

 

[stuffedsuperdud]

Boston ? Have you considered The Andover Shop? Most of what they do is MTM.
They have new owners- their founder died last year. A major advantage is that it is local
so that adjustments can be made "in person", etc.

I've walked by a few times and thought "Oh this is where the guy from The Trad gets his stuff" but unfortunately I never did go inside when Charlie Davidson was holding court. I'm shaped like a fridge and the prep style looks boxy and kinda sloppy on me, so I didn't want to go and waste his time just because he was a reluctant #menswear celebrity. I might be inclined to check them out now though and see if anything in the MTM program jumps out at me.

 

[TweedAvenger]

Thanks for the enjoyable read so far.

I started buying MTM stuff here (Japan) seriously last year. I'd had a few sites made before and wasn't particularly impressed. I didn't do anywhere near as much research beforehand as I should.

I've now found a very nice tailor a few hours from where I live. They've made me a suit and 4 pairs of trousers which I've been really happy with. Apparently my large raised posterior (I'm not Japanese) was a unique challenge for them, but they have risen to it wonderfully. I've found it very hard to get trousers that fit well in that area.

I'm looking forward to collecting a tweed jacket from Ring Jacket next month.

 

[amiga505]

Well, for one thing, it's against almost all manufacturing terms to publish their wholesale pricing publicly. Second, as I stated there may be vendors or customers on this forum who use those manufacturers, and it's kind of a **** you to discuss their cost structure in public. Honestly, I thought this would be pretty obvious.

in addition, the price is a result of negotiations. a particular negotiation between parties at a particular time. as such, price negotiated in one context may have very little to do in another. Bob, learning that he is paying double what Alice is paying, would not be too happy and would start raising questions. now, the proper answer to Bob, just like in the parable of the grapes collectors, would be "That is the deal we made." but that certainly would add stress to the relationship, may cause re-negotiations on and on. now, add Janice, Farrell, Tom, Claudia etc. etc. into the system. this is the sort of headache no supplier wants.

and I concur, at least to me, this all seems sort of obvious.

 

[induere_to]

Fun fact:

Here in Toronto, there are roughly 40 different menswear companies. Almost all of them share manufacturers. Some companies charge 4 times the price than another competitor that shares the same manufacturer.

I'll admit, it gets a little frustrating to me. But the reasons I'm frustrated stem in reasons that don't have much to do with their business margins but rather the false advertisement of the word 'bespoke' in their names. Mind you, that I am well aware that bespoke has a different meaning to everyone so I'll let it slide; but promising your clients that your garments are locally made ends up hurting the entirety of the industry once it become public knowledge that your company is being untruthful.

I did some digging and I found another company in Toronto that uses my same manufacturer. I saw their interpretation of tailoring and what they'd suggest is a wearable garment. I don't care how much they charge, nor do I care how large their client base is. It's obvious that they and I are on complete opposite sides of the spectrum when it comes to what we consider proper tailoring.

 

[breakaway01]

Fun fact:

Here in Toronto, there are roughly 40 different menswear companies. Almost all of them share manufacturers. Some companies charge 4 times the price than another competitor that shares the same manufacturer.

I'll admit, it gets a little frustrating to me. But the reasons I'm frustrated stem in reasons that don't have much to do with their business margins but rather the false advertisement of the word 'bespoke' in their names. Mind you, that I am well aware that bespoke has a different meaning to everyone so I'll let it slide; but promising your clients that your garments are locally made ends up hurting the entirety of the industry once it become public knowledge that your company is being untruthful.

I did some digging and I found another company in Toronto that uses my same manufacturer. I saw their interpretation of tailoring and what they'd suggest is a wearable garment. I don't care how much they charge, nor do I care how large their client base is. It's obvious that they and I are on complete opposite sides of the spectrum when it comes to what we consider proper tailoring.

Not in the industry myself but my impression has been that 'using the same manufacturer' does not mean that the garments are necessarily constructed to the same standards (materials, construction techniques)?

 

[Crispyj]

Not in the industry myself but my impression has been that 'using the same manufacturer' does not mean that the garments are necessarily constructed to the same standards (materials, construction techniques)?

Using the same manufacturer when it's actually MTM, but your competition labels it as Bespoke.

 

[breakaway01]

Using the same manufacturer when it's actually MTM, but your competition labels it as Bespoke.

understood, sorry if I wasn't being clear. Not disputing that "MTM" and "bespoke" are often misused but pointing out that a 4x difference in retail price between two garments made by the same manufacturer may be (at least partially) based on real differences in construction & materials.

 

[Crispyj]

understood, sorry if I wasn't being clear. Not disputing that "MTM" and "bespoke" are often misused but pointing out that a 4x difference in retail price between two garments made by the same manufacturer may be (at least partially) based on real differences in construction & materials.

Ah yes, I understand now haha, there is price differences. Rota and Ring Jacket are good examples.

Say The Armoury Rota's have more hand work so they start off at $500 which is reasonable because fabric etc. Rota are around $400 for wool, $300 for cotton.

Ring Jacket has 2 distinct levels, Regular line and Ring Meister. Ring Meister has more hand work so they cost around $1000 in Asia vs $600 for regular line. Obviously duties and house models may inflate the cost slightly. Armoury is based off Ring Meister and cost $1200-$1600 which is definitely not x4 ?

So x4 mark ups with same manufacturer tells you what kind of stores they are.

 

[Crispyj]

Stores like that are selling Regular line Ring Jacket at inflated Ring Meister prices. For those that know the difference, you would avoid those stores. Not my business, but it's a slimy tactic profiting off clueless buyers imo. But that's how businesses work, more info/educated, more power to you. So it's not really right or wrong outside of an ethical view, as it's their business.

Hopefully this thread does help spread solid information with the help those in the industry. Like @induere_to , great Fox jacket

 

[comrade]

I've walked by a few times and thought "Oh this is where the guy from The Trad gets his stuff" but unfortunately I never did go inside when Charlie Davidson was holding court. I'm shaped like a fridge and the prep style looks boxy and kinda sloppy on me, so I didn't want to go and waste his time just because he was a reluctant #menswear celebrity. I might be inclined to check them out now though and see if anything in the MTM program jumps out at me.

Full disclosure: I've never bought anything but sweaters from them. I live in CA, so MTM from them
might be a crapshoot. Been in the store in Cambridge. For me it was a trad version of a Catholic
visiting St Peters, Rome. Great clothes! The do have a two button fitted model that might work for you.

 

[bdavro23]

I thought I would talk briefly about one of the first garments that I had made, because I think its important to understand some of the evolution that goes along with having clothing made. It was the second garment, a suit in slightly darker than mid grey sharkskin that I still have. And it had all the bells and whistles. One button, big peak lapel, besom ticket pocket and flap hacking pockets on the jacket, side adjusters and button fly on the trousers, with one back pocket and 2" cuff. Oh, and it has a stupid lining in it too...

Today, I would never have that suit made, but I'm glad that I did. I think that I, and perhaps a lot of people, start making clothing and get excited about the novelty of the possibilities. It took me a while, probably a couple of years to really understand what I liked and what was my style. I suppose that it is still evolving, though certainly at a much slower pace than back then.

I still make mistakes too, though. Last year I made a grey odd jacket out of this really interesting 50/50 silk wool cloth with a unique pattern to it. Unfortunately, from more than 3 feet away it just looks like worsted suiting cloth and resolves as an orphaned suit jacket. To the average, non-SF person, I'm sure it looks great, but I couldnt get past it and gave it to a friend. Hopefully I've learned from that, and my other mistakes, but I'm sure there will be more down the line...