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The Made-to-Measure Thread

comrade

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I'd argue that trad = natural shoulders and sack cut, the rest are just over the top details that I happen to enjoy in some combination or another depending on how much I want to lean into the look. I grew up in New England in the 80s and 90s and went to prep school and have an affinity for "trad" cause it reminds me of that. I've generally associated the 'trad' with the J. Press look (as opposed to Chipp) since that is where my father shopped.
Before I settled on Chipp I also wore J Press- the rare fitted double vent model,
and Paul Stuart. I stopped shopping at BB just after College because I found it did
not fit as well as the others. Also, it was a bit "doughty" IMHO. Chipp offered more
distinctive fabrics RTW and MTM than BB. I attended an Ivy college during the
"Golden Age". My father wore Rogers Peet and later BB and also bespoke or( MTM ?)
through a now gone obscure tailor where one of his patients worked.
 

bdavro23

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I need to convince my wife to take some pictures of the KW stuff, which comes before my Hemrajani stuff chronologically. But I do have these handy of the Hemrajani pieces:

Left is the first suit jacket (Drapers 5-star), right is the second blazer (H&S Cape Horn serge) I had them make up with some stylistic changes that lean trad but don't go full bore.

Some notes...my weigh fluctuates between 210-230lbs and I have a barreled chest/torso. I think when I got measured for the first Hemrajani commission it I was at around 215lb and opted for a basted fitting. Second commission was based off of notes from the first, with no basted fitting but I was probably around 230ish at that point so while its not quite apples to oranges, its a bit more apples to slightly bigger apples. FWIW, Joe and Divij have offered to make some alterations on the 2nd commission when they come back around again. they adjusted pretty well for my drop right shoulder on the 2nd commission, but I think I may have them might tighten up the right shoulder measurement just a bit to avoid the drop from the extended shoulder (which I am guessing is caused my the drop)

I think going forward I will continue to opt for basted fittings until my fit is totally locked down, going to give them another whirl with a charcoal suit and a tweed sport coat and then see where we stand. But the first commission was better fitting than my third KW jacket

View attachment 1474394

I remember you posting these some time ago, they look really good.
 

bdavro23

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Because its the last of the "summery" days here, I thought I'd post some jackets that are going into hibernation soon.

This is a slubby silk an linen jacket that is fairly recent. I am wearing it with a pair of douchebag Gucci loafers that my wife bought me as a present. Full disclosure: I love them and want a pair in black too. Whatever that says about me I'm fine with. Shout out to @Todd Shelton for the jeans.

Back to the jacket. This garment is interesting because of the fabric, which has a high silk content. That means that it has very little give/ stretch to it, if any at all. Accommodations must be made and if I had used the same measurements and fit that I use as my "Pattern", it would not have fit me. I mean, it would have fit me, but this is StyFo, so obviously it would have been a disaster. You know what I'm saying...

Anyway, pictures.

PXL_20201008_181749950.jpg
PXL_20201008_181802352.jpg
PXL_20201008_181857128.jpg
PXL_20201008_181931502.jpg
 

FlyingHorker

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Where exactly do we draw the line on bespoke and MTM these days?

My tailor measured my waist, thighs, seat and made me some trousers with whatever details I requested.

He's now making me an overcoat with details I requested, said he'll have to see if raglan sleeves work with his pattern or not. Not sure if he's creating a new pattern, or altering an established one.
 

classicalthunde

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Where exactly do we draw the line on bespoke and MTM these days?

My tailor measured my waist, thighs, seat and made me some trousers with whatever details I requested.

He's now making me an overcoat with details I requested, said he'll have to see if raglan sleeves work with his pattern or not. Not sure if he's creating a new pattern, or altering an established one.

I feel like the two main differentiators are 1) does it come with a partial construction fitting, and 2) can they do anything (within reason) that I ask for...

I feel sometimes even "true" bespoke can be done straight to a forward finish at this point if you've had enough experience with the tailor and they are comfortable with it, but i often find that MTM factories are confined to a set list of style options
 

heldentenor

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I think of made-to-measure as anything that's constructed based on altering a "standard" block pattern to fit a wearer, and bespoke as something made custom, from the ground up, for the individual wearer. The fitting process is probably more important than the construction, as some made-to-measure garments have as much (or more) handwork as some bespoke.

Where exactly do we draw the line on bespoke and MTM these days?

My tailor measured my waist, thighs, seat and made me some trousers with whatever details I requested.

I feel like the two main differentiators are 1) does it come with a partial construction fitting, and 2) can they do anything (within reason) that I ask for...

I feel sometimes even "true" bespoke can be done straight to a forward finish at this point if you've had enough experience with the tailor and they are comfortable with it, but i often find that MTM factories are confined to a set list of style options
 

bdavro23

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I feel like the two main differentiators are 1) does it come with a partial construction fitting, and 2) can they do anything (within reason) that I ask for...

I feel sometimes even "true" bespoke can be done straight to a forward finish at this point if you've had enough experience with the tailor and they are comfortable with it, but i often find that MTM factories are confined to a set list of style options

To me, this is the big thing.
 

bdavro23

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I think of made-to-measure as anything that's constructed based on altering a "standard" block pattern to fit a wearer, and bespoke as something made custom, from the ground up, for the individual wearer. The fitting process is probably more important than the construction, as some made-to-measure garments have as much (or more) handwork as some bespoke.

This is definitely a grey area, but I feel like the Maplethorpe rule applies here...
 

FlyingHorker

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Interesting. So it sounds like what my tailor does is bespoke, as he does anything I ask him to make me, but he calls it custom and/or made-to-measure.
 

classicalthunde

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Yea, my basic guideline is:

If you do 1 and 2 it’s clearly bespoke.

If you do 1 or 2 but not both, it’s a grey area up for debate (I like the term semi-bespoke)

If you do neither 1 or 2, then it’s pretty clearly MTM
 

Jazzthief

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Does anyone have experience with Scabal MTM? What are their range on styling and fit options? Also, how is the quality of the end product?
 

bdavro23

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Does anyone have experience with Scabal MTM? What are their range on styling and fit options? Also, how is the quality of the end product?
Scabal has an extensive MTM program that has an incredibly extensive range of fit adjustments. HOWEVER... In any MTM system, but especially one that is very complicated like theirs, you are buying the fitter, not the program...
 

jaywhyy

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The definition of MTM vs bespoke isn't as grey as you think..

MTM is anything that originates off a standard pattern. The in-house tailor will take your measurements, make adjustments, then relay the adjustments to the factory. The adjustments to the pattern can be quite drastic and precise, depending on the outfit.

Proper bespoke will have an actual cutter design a pattern specific to you (of course with the house style...hopefully). The cutter then "cuts" your pattern from the cloth, sends it to tailors to assemble the suit together, adjusts at the fittings, rinse/repeat.

Steed MTM you have a trained cutter taking your measurements and making adjustments, but ultimately those adjustments are being made to a standardized pattern.

If you're more into shoes, MTM is akin to having Alden customize their Barrie last to fit you better, i.e. they measure your narrow heel so they shave off part of the heel on the last. Bespoke you'd have a completely new last made specifically for you. With either, you can customize the leather, whether it's a derby or oxford, eyelets, etc.

As far as I know, true bespoke doesn't really exist under $3k. MTM has a gigantic range, of course.
 
Last edited:

bdavro23

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The definition of MTM vs bespoke isn't as grey as you think..

MTM is anything that originates off a standard pattern. The in-house tailor will take your measurements, make adjustments, then relay the adjustments to the factory. The adjustments to the pattern can be quite drastic and precise, depending on the outfit.

Proper bespoke will have an actual cutter design a pattern specific to you (of course with the house style...hopefully). The cutter then "cuts" your pattern from the cloth, sends it to tailors to assemble the suit together, adjusts at the fittings, rinse/repeat.

Steed MTM you have a trained cutter taking your measurements and making adjustments, but ultimately those adjustments are being made to a standardized pattern.

If you're more into shoes, MTM is akin to having Alden customize their Barrie last to fit you better, i.e. they measure your narrow heel so they shave off part of the heel on the last. Bespoke you'd have a completely new last made specifically for you. With either, you can customize the leather, whether it's a derby or oxford, eyelets, etc.

As far as I know, true bespoke doesn't really exist under $3k. MTM has a gigantic range, of course.

Did you read what you wrote? How would you know if someone was adjusting block patterns to customers? I know two bespoke tailors who do that because they like the outcomes. If MTM can have such drastic and precise adjustments, whats the difference to bespoke? What if the outcome is the same? How would you tell bespoke vs MTM?

Lets say someone is broadly a 40 R. If that guy went to a bespoke tailor, do you think his pattern is going to be unrecognizable to an off the rack pattern? Theres only so many ways to create a "house style", so the variables are further reduced because you are attempting to produce a specific outcome.

None of your definitions are accurate in my opinion, including the shoe example. Theres a bespoke maker on this forum who works off of standard lasts and adjusts them to the customer's feet. If you still dont see grey in the equation, you're ignoring it.

To me, the difference between MTM and bespoke is this: The two variables in question are fit and details, and in MTM there are limitations in the adjustments that can be made to those things, if at all because you are working with a pre-determined set of options. In bespoke, the limitations are the creativity and skill of the tailor and cutter.
 

classicalthunde

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The definition of MTM vs bespoke isn't as grey as you think..

MTM is anything that originates off a standard pattern. The in-house tailor will take your measurements, make adjustments, then relay the adjustments to the factory. The adjustments to the pattern can be quite drastic and precise, depending on the outfit.

Fairly certain A&S usesblock patterns, as does Frank Shattuck...both of which are squarely in the bespoke realm
 

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