The Look goes on...

Discussion in 'Streetwear and Denim' started by Mr Knightley, Mar 13, 2014.

  1. Mr Knightley

    Mr Knightley Senior member

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    I do have a couple of current ties that are predominantly green and this may be the one I have put up before as it is the better of the two - and quite adaptable:

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    Last edited: Jun 20, 2015


  2. cerneabbas

    cerneabbas Senior member

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    An excellent post on Mod to Suedehead by Bob the Badger about confusion of shoe types and terms,Gibsons,Royals,Smooths etc.
    I thought for many years that 'Oxford' meant a shoe with a seemed toe cap.
    I suspect that different types were called by a different name in different areas.
    Tank top is another name that means different things to different people. ( sorry about the repeated use of the word different).
    Coincidentally I came across a pair of Gibsons online,the Herring Pershore they look like split toe Gibsons that I remember,not really my cup of tea I prefer a heavier shoe or a boot.

    BTW,I have been looking at macs from APC (since Botolph put pictures of his P.O.W check one on here),I have found 2 types in navy the 'Town'mac and the 'City' mac, does anyone know the difference ? I can find no information so maybe they are the same coat ?.
     


  3. Botolph

    Botolph Senior member

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    Then there's the trans-Atlantic names for shoes. Brogues and oxfords and wingtips oh my! It all adds to the confusion. I don't think we even HAVE a name for gibsons over here! Got married in a pair though, but the toe was more pointed. Elegant shoe.

    The APC Town Mac is great; I got the POW check one. Fully-lined, but pretty lightweight owing to linen in the mix. Sits nicely on.
     


  4. covskin

    covskin Senior member

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    ^ and gibson doesn't necessarily imply a 'norwegian' front end either...can mean a doc marten shoe sort of thing. Glad it wasn't just me struggling with the shoe language back then. Remember reading the Nick Knight book and wondering what wingtips were even as I was wearing them but I think the worst is plaincaps, plain toecaps wtf??!!??
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2015


  5. cerneabbas

    cerneabbas Senior member

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    Yes,Bluchers and sweater vests would have made for some head scratching here,longwings I can understand but what does that make 'English' brogues ? and is wingtip a longwing or is it both kinds of brogue ?.

    Yes I like the plain and simple look of the APC mac,seems the nearest stockist is in London though.
     


  6. cerneabbas

    cerneabbas Senior member

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    I think that they were just called 'Plains' here,I suppose that they were just the plain version of the shoe with no brogue pattern.

    Then theres distinctive looking shoes that probably don't have an exact type,I have been looking at the John Spencer Wainhouse,quite a different looking brogue,unfortunately I cant find a pair in my size.
     


  7. covskin

    covskin Senior member

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    ^ I'm thinking the John Spencer Wainhouse with its distinctive back end is a gibson! - a gibson brogue!
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2015


  8. cerneabbas

    cerneabbas Senior member

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    The more I think about it Gibson is probably another name for a Derby shoe ( Blucher in USA).

    So the JS Wainhouse could be described as a Gibson or a Derby brogue,but what type of Brogue ? its not a longwing but is it a wingtip ?.

    A lot of names become muddled and the 'wrong' name becomes more common than the proper one,for instance Bull Terrier that's a dog breed but most people would say English bull terrier,thats not correcet but if you said 'I am buying a Bull Terrier', I bet the reply would be 'Staffy or English' ?, so it becomes better understood to use the English name although its wrong.
    Sorry for going off track.

    We were talking in work about the term 'Blazer', now my older workmate and me were saying that tweed jackets are sportscoats but the younger lads call them all blazers,because that's what the shops call them,again wrong IMO,but sportscoat isn't really used now.
     


  9. Botolph

    Botolph Senior member

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    Haha, yes it does get a bit confusing! "Wingtips" are any sort of shoe with the leather piece on the toe that wraps around the sides like inverted wings, not limited to, but including, brogues(brogue meaning a shoe with punched holes)of the long and short wing varieties. If I'm not wrong, you of the Empire call the longwings "American brogues"? I've always called them brogues but Stateside they seem to be generically referred to as "wingtips". Yeah I've seen wingtips without the broguing design. I don't much like the look personally.

    To add to the insanity, for us here a "sweater" is a jumper, and a vest is a "tank top", but a waistcoat(weskit),is a "vest".

    Isolation does funny things to language, which is something I find quite fascinating.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2015


  10. Mr Knightley

    Mr Knightley Senior member

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    Quote:That’s very interesting stuff. I had always assumed that wingtip was an American name for a shoe with broguing because the way the shoes are designed, whether Oxford or Derby / Blucher, whether long or short wing, the brogue pattern on the front normally resembles the wings of a bird. BTW I have a pair of Cheaney Derby brogues that are called ‘gibsons’ by Cheaney, further confusing things. Back in the day we used to call our Royals just that. We would say Royal brogue, Royal smooths or plains and Royal gibsons (for the split toe style). I agree that the ‘wrong’ names are often adopted over time and blazer is a good example of that, now being applied to any odd jacket by most suppliers. And even the word coat has lost its way. In days gone by a gentleman would wear a coat (i.e. a jacket) and underneath he would sport a waistcoat and on top an overcoat or raincoat. Now the overcoat is the only one normally called a coat here! And of course, differences abound between English and American usage. I am sure here or on Ask Andy there is a glossary.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2015


  11. covskin

    covskin Senior member

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    ^ interesting, when you search the Cheaney site for the word 'gibson' all but one of the shoes returned has the distinctive back end that I thought might be what the word gibson refers to

    http://www.cheaney.co.uk/searchresults.php?searchname=gibson&go.x=61&go.y=14&go=Submit+now

    An example below of the distinctive back end that seems to make a shoe a gibson. I chose a plain to isolate this distinctive feature from the chaff of split-toes or broguing. See the way the lacing flap is continuous with the back (notice the seam curving down to the sole) rather than a separate unit stitched on top.

    [​IMG]

    So a gibson is a subset of a derby as far as lacing goes but is otherwise unlike a derby and indeed has more in common with an oxford, being an oxford sewn in reverse (back over front).
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2015


  12. cerneabbas

    cerneabbas Senior member

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    Coincidence but I was just looking at Allen Edmonds factory seconds sale as advertised on styleforum ( theres some unusual designs ) and I can see 3 different shoes that I would have called 'split toe Gibsons' back in the day,only one has the back that you mention, AE Ashton derby,Clark street casual,Delray.

    Also I googled Crockett and Jones Gibson,they say that the term Derby / Gibson /Blucher is the same thing and to do with the lacing flaps, they describe the Pembroke ( a nice looking brogue IMO ) and the Ashdown as Derbys and they have the back that you mention.

    I think that time has blurred the original meanings and that Royal Gibson was just a model name anyway,lets face it Royal has come to mean Longwing brogue to a lot of people.

    'Harrington' is another one,I expect we all think pretty much the same on here,something like a Baracuta G9, but just google Harrington and see what other people think a Harrington is.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2015


  13. cerneabbas

    cerneabbas Senior member

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    Timberland isn't a make that I am very positive about,but I have seen a jacket called the Mount Pierce online which looks reasonably smart and with the hood attached quite practical, has anyone seen one in the flesh ? or a similar coat in a different make ? a very short raincoat more of a rainjacket.
     


  14. browniecj

    browniecj Senior member

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    Thank Mr.Knightley I have now found this Forum.:)
     


  15. browniecj

    browniecj Senior member

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    As I have stated before.On The Timpson Royals` Box it stated "Gibsons".There were 3 Styles of Royals and anybody who was buying at the time would have known this - whether out of Simons or Timpsons.
     


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