The importance of stretching....

[unexpected]

I've recently been researching stretching and thought I'd throw some food for thought out here....

Traditionally, stretching has been used as a pre-workout "warm-up" to get "the blood flowing". I think the general "trend" now is that stretching is of greater importance after a workout and that pre-workout stretching can lead to injury.

One interesting thing I've noted is that most of the time, stretching is used in conjuction with the running sports- I always see runners/swimmers stretch, but I rarely see weightlifters stretch. why is that?

Another interesting thing I've come across is the idea of "tension". Several (questionable?) sources say that stretching is bad for explosive movements (like lifting, jumping, etc.) because it ruins the "tension" in the leg. To me, this reeks of "bro-science", but I don't know enough of the real science behind stretching to definitely go one way or another. What's real and what's not? Has anyone attempted to do yoga/pilates with a serious weightlifting routine (or would that be just weird?).

Anyways, if anyone has comments/ideas/authoritative diatribes on stretching, I'd love to hear them.

 

[robertorex]

I think the reason that you see many runners/cyclists/endurance athletes stretch is because if they don't stretch they'll cramp outright, which is clear and present acute pain.

Many weightlifters stretch (I do, after workouts) because it improves performance. I don't see how you're going to squat to depth without a regimen of hip stretching, or how you're going to pull a proper deadlift with tight hamstrings.

Some people may write him off as the top of the kettlebell (pyramid?) kult, but pavel tsatsouline has a pretty good book on stretching - search his name for some good articles.

 

[erdawe]

This might help out with thoughts about the topic in layman's terms: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...stretch16.html If you're truly interested checkout Ian Shrier's multiple articles on the subject from PubMed, ect. http://www.jgh.ca/SITES/003-29-ian_s...rier&L=E&MINI= I don't want to redigest this data again for you, but explore if you're as intrigued as you sound. My personal opinion from exploring this topic a while back was that the traditional static stretching doesn't really improve performance right before exercise, and not necessarily needed around performance. Active stretching such as many yoga positions are great to improve flexibility; its flexibility that can improve sport performance. If one were to do stretching coinciding with exercise, I would choose dynamic (not ballistic subcategory) be helpful. Sorry, I currently don't really feel in the mood to weigh in further.

 

[why]

Most people don't understand it outside of athletics.

It's late so I won't go into great detail but basically stretching for most people just needs to meet a certain flexibility requirement and nothing more. Overly-stretched muscles have a smaller myotatic reflex than others but that doesn't mean stretching prior to working out will hinder most people in any way.

Look at it this way: if your muscles are like big rubber bands and they're really loose they're like those thin rubber bands that can barely hold a handful of pencils together. Others might be more like the super thick rubber bands. Whatever, you get the idea.

When a sprinter is running if his hamstrings are tight his stride length will suffer and he has to work harder to continually stretch his muscles, whereas if they were optimally stretched he wouldn't. If they were overly-stretched the contact with the ground might be prolonged or he'd have to use more energy to propel himself to the same speed (if it's even possible for him to do it without the added boost from the stretch reflex).

Muscles have a strength curve and they enter active insufficiency outside this curve which is why there's sticking points on exercises, why it's really hard to get the weight back all the way on a leg curl machine, etc. It has to do with muscle lengths and tension potential and stuff and therefore it's partially dependent upon flexibility.

That was longer than I thought but I can post more tomorrow if anyone still cares.

 

[holymadness]

Originally Posted by unexpected

Traditionally, stretching has been used as a pre-workout "warm-up" to get "the blood flowing".
Maybe by people who don't know what they're doing. Never stretch before warming up.

I think the general "trend" now is that stretching is of greater importance after a workout and that pre-workout stretching can lead to injury.

According to Men's Health?

Both are essential.

 

[ryoneo]

I have always found that stretching is more for flexibility. I do it every time I work out or play hockey.

 

[robertorex]

Originally Posted by why

Most people don't understand it outside of athletics.

It's late so I won't go into great detail but basically stretching for most people just needs to meet a certain flexibility requirement and nothing more. Overly-stretched muscles have a smaller myotatic reflex than others but that doesn't mean stretching prior to working out will hinder most people in any way.

Look at it this way: if your muscles are like big rubber bands and they're really loose they're like those thin rubber bands that can barely hold a handful of pencils together. Others might be more like the super thick rubber bands. Whatever, you get the idea.

When a sprinter is running if his hamstrings are tight his stride length will suffer and he has to work harder to continually stretch his muscles, whereas if they were optimally stretched he wouldn't. If they were overly-stretched the contact with the ground might be prolonged or he'd have to use more energy to propel himself to the same speed (if it's even possible for him to do it without the added boost from the stretch reflex).

Muscles have a strength curve and they enter active insufficiency outside this curve which is why there's sticking points on exercises, why it's really hard to get the weight back all the way on a leg curl machine, etc. It has to do with muscle lengths and tension potential and stuff and therefore it's partially dependent upon flexibility.

That was longer than I thought but I can post more tomorrow if anyone still cares.

Why makes some good points that also come up in Pavel's material. Basically if you stretch too much your muscles get loose and thus there are diminishing returns on how much force they can generate. Some flexibility is good to perform certain motions but when they get too stretched out it's hard to get them tight to generate power again.

 

[Jrslm_Stylin]

Warm-ups are important, and dynamic stretching can aid performance and reduce the risk of injury, but as several other posters stated, static stretching before a work-out, and especially before you've warmed up, is at best a waste of time and may even increase your risk of injury. Even the military and high school gym coaches are phasing out static stretches because studies demonstrate that statistically those who just warmed up without stretches performed at the same level as those who stretched, and those who stretched in fact had slightly more muscle pulls and other injuries. There is some evidence to suggest, however, that in the cool-down phase after you're done exercising, at least some static stretches could be beneficial, but the hard data is ambiguous.

I'm an avid runner, and find fast-walking and a variety of dynamic stretches leave me in better shape for a long run or race than statics, but I sometimes still do statics as part of a cool-down routine, along with downing lots of water, to prevent tightening and retain flexibility.

There's a great NYTimes article on this subject, btw, from the a few months ago, that lays out the physiology on this, I'm sure it'll come up on Google.

 

[Scrumhalf]

I do know from personal experience that ever since I eliminated static stretching from my warmups and started using warmup sets with light weights exclusively before my gym sessions, my injury rate has just about dropped to zero. Here is the NYT article BTW: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/02/sp...112pewarm.html

 

[Thomas]

I can't remember the last time I really stretched pre- or post-workout. I only stretch now if I feel tightness anywhere.

 

[why]

This idea that stretching or not before a workout is either 'good' or 'bad' is a myopic view. Some people always need to stretch, some don't ever, some sports require it, some don't, etc.

 

[unexpected]

I'm really interested in the point at which stretching becomes "bad" - when you're overly-stretched (as several posters have called this). What's the optimal way to determine when you've hit that point? Are there some warning signs that one can follow? How does one "listen to the body" when performing stretches to know when they've hit the optimal point?

and I'll definitely check out those books. This has been really informative, thanks.

 

[Grayland]

I've been looking into finding a good stretching program. I never really stretched at all and got by without it (many of us did - I'm not suggesting I'm special). I'm 44 now and I'm noticing that I'm having tightness in my lower back that is keeping me from running longer distances. I literally will deadlift (or C&J or squat) very heavy, put the weights away, and drive home. No stretching or warm down at all. The next day, I'll start a 5K and halfway through, my lower back is tightening up. Many of you are thinking: duh, you're asking for trouble! Well, I did exactly that for about 25 years and it worked fine, but maybe my age has caught up with me. Obviously, I need to stretch to prevent this, but am not sure what type of stretching to do. Primarily legs and back and no more than about 5-10 minutes.

 

[why]

Originally Posted by unexpected

I'm really interested in the point at which stretching becomes "bad" - when you're overly-stretched (as several posters have called this). What's the optimal way to determine when you've hit that point? Are there some warning signs that one can follow? How does one "listen to the body" when performing stretches to know when they've hit the optimal point?

and I'll definitely check out those books. This has been really informative, thanks.

If you don't know really know or measure your stride length I wouldn't worry about it. Other factors will matter a whole lot more.

 

[unexpected]

why, humor me for a bit:

I think the point you're getting at is that there's an optimal stride length for everybody. Something I've read about quite frequently is one way to get faster is to run at this stride length- most new runners seem to run a stride length that is shorter than their optimal length.

the best way to increase your stride length to your optimal point is by stretching and opening up the hip flexors correct? The point at which you're doing too much is where you start "over-striding" - something that also happens frequently when you try to run a longer stride (as opposed to letting it happen naturally)?

1) how does one measure their stride length? Is it based on height?

2 We brought up this discussion on running and digressed from weights- can I make the assumption that being incredibly flexible won't have negative ramifications on weight-lifting performance?