The Hong Kong Tailors Thread

[GBR]

Talking about Prologue, I generally like their products photos. I have not seen their real pieces so my impression is just based on pictures. I like Mr. JT's suit most among their photos, but some of their jackets on their customers look slightly off to me. About the below, to my liking, jacket should be a bit longer and pocket should be lower accordingly. Or button place should be slightly higher.


View attachment 786724

Look more closely at this, there is one serious fault which stands out like a sore thumb. The lapel button hole should not be of key hole pattern, a very basic error and enough to damn the tailor in my eyes. He cannot know his trade if he allows such a thing to leave his work room in wearable form - as opposed to shredded

 

[bamboo]

Look more closely at this, there is one serious fault which stands out like a sore thumb. The lapel button hole should not be of key hole pattern, a very basic error and enough to damn the tailor in my eyes. He cannot know his trade if he allows such a thing to leave his work room in wearable form - as opposed to shredded

I see what you mean. It looks they intentionally do this way (the same prominent key-hole including lapel button hole). I see most of the cases lapel button hole by hand is more straight and without key-hole than other button holes. I sometimes see those button holes all look similar but less distinctively key-hole. I don't know the correct answer. The key-hole on the Prologue pictures is quite big, I would prefer it to be more straight (or subtle).

 

[geeboo]

I do not see it as a problem. If U take the SR standard as "the" ultimate standard; there would be not much variations let not to say a new signature cut of its own.
Moreover, as they said themselves, their style is Italian-based, which U can see these type of holes in Sciamat & Rubinacci. In that sense, I think they have actually maintained the overall design integrity [not something English & something Italian] & their personal twist is spot-on.
We could be more open in assessing new cuts. The Q is: Have they gone too far ? Is it beautiful ?
I am afraid yr ans is yes while mine is no for the 1st Q

 

[dhkt]

I see what you mean. It looks they intentionally do this way (the same prominent key-hole including lapel button hole). I see most of the cases lapel button hole by hand is more straight and without key-hole than other button holes. I sometimes see those button holes all look similar but less distinctively key-hole. I don't know the correct answer. The key-hole on the Prologue pictures is quite big, I would prefer it to be more straight (or subtle).

You are right. The keyhole shaped buttonhole is one of the features of their house style jacket.

 

[dhkt]

I do not see it as a problem. If U take the SR standard as "the" ultimate standard; there would be not much variations let not to say a new signature cut of its own.
Moreover, as they said themselves, their style is Italian-based, which U can see these type of holes in Sciamat & Rubinacci.
We could be more open in assessing new cuts. The Q is: Have they gone too far ? Is it beautiful ?
I am afraid yr ans is yes while mine is no for the 1st Q

View attachment 788606

One thing worth mentioning is that the milanese buttonholes are not able to hold their shapes if you wear lapel chains or boutonnière. The keyhole shape may be distorted even if you undo the "interior seams".

 

[geeboo]

I do not reply for the sake of arguing. Since we are discussing, just voice out my opinion.
Milanese holes differ from normal hand-sewn holes in the using of a gimp. I don't think it will weaken the structure or stiffness of the hole. One thing I observe is the weight of the fabric where one of my big Lapel, DB overcoat made of thick wool found its lapel hole distorted; not because of hanging something but because of the heavy Weight of fabric of the big lapel itself underneath the hole that literally pulls the hole farther apart; causing the distortion. Also, I suspect apart from weight of the fabric of the lapel, the relative [to the weight underneath] size of the hole also matters. The larger the hole, the more liable it is to the distortion.
If U are interested in seeing more hand -sewn button holes pics, I have a collection of photos in Pinterest.
https://www.pinterest.com/chantommy5220/hand-sewn-button-holes/

 

[bamboo]

@geeboo your link seems not working now. Do you have a pic of your distorted button hole. I don't have such an experience. I tend to think it could be milanese on thick and heavy fabric is simply difficult to do?

@dhkt Do you mean the shape of key hole with Milanese is more prone than non-milanese to distortion when actually used with pins, flowers etc? I can imagine key hole shape with sharp round at the end is more difficult to attain its shape with gimp thread inside and become wedge shaped.

 

[geeboo]

the link should work now - I put it back to non-secret I don't mean 300g fabric. I mean 600g+ fabric

 

[dhkt]

@geeboo your link seems not working now. Do you have a pic of your distorted button hole. I don't have such an experience. I tend to think it could be milanese on thick and heavy fabric is simply difficult to do?

@dhkt Do you mean the shape of key hole with Milanese is more prone than non-milanese to distortion when actually used with pins, flowers etc? I can imagine key hole shape with sharp round at the end is more difficult to attain its shape with gimp thread inside and become wedge shaped.

Actually all Milanese buttonholes are more prone than the non-milanese ones to distortion when actually used with pins, flowers etc, no matter what shapes they are.

 

[dhkt]

I do not reply for the sake of arguing. Since we are discussing, just voice out my opinion.
Milanese holes differ from normal hand-sewn holes in the using of a gimp. I don't think it will weaken the structure or stiffness of the hole. One thing I observe is the weight of the fabric where one of my big Lapel, DB overcoat made of thick wool found its lapel hole distorted; not because of hanging something but because of the heavy Weight of fabric of the big lapel itself underneath the hole that literally pulls the hole farther apart; causing the distortion. Also, I suspect apart from weight of the fabric of the lapel, the relative [to the weight underneath] size of the hole also matters. The larger the hole, the more liable it is to the distortion.
If U are interested in seeing more hand -sewn button holes pics, I have a collection of photos in Pinterest.
https://www.pinterest.com/chantommy5220/hand-sewn-button-holes/

Sorry for any misunderstanding I may have caused.

I do have seen some distorted Milanese buttonholes which are due to the use of lapel pins. The Milanese buttonhole is designed for decoration, but not for functional purpose. As such, some tailors would sew up the Milanese buttonhole in order to retain its shape. This is what I mean by "interior seam" (a bad description).

FYI, the Milanese buttonhole made by Prologue is not sewn up.

 

[teoky]

So the Milanese buttonhole made by Prologue is more for decoration purpose and not so functional?

The shape of the lapel buttonhole can come with different shapes. Is there a right and wrong answer for that?

 

[dhkt]

So the Milanese buttonhole made by Prologue is more for decoration purpose and not so functional?

The shape of the lapel buttonhole can come with different shapes. Is there a right and wrong answer for that?

ALL Milanese buttonholes are more for decoration purpose and not so functional. You may see what Simon states in this article.
https://www.permanentstyle.com/2014/01/loden-top-coat-from-vergallo.html

 

[geeboo]

Again, I do not reply for the sake of pure arguing.
Pls note Simon's overcoat cloth is exactly the kind of cloth I am talking about - 600g+. Also noted as a working hole, its size should be larger than decorative holes. So, it also fulfills my aforesaid symptoms for a deformed hole.
Pure speculation: what he might not have continued to say is after changing to normal button holes [if he did], the deform still persists - of course we never know unless we ask him.
My ground is the gimp structure will not weaken the hole, there is no logical reasons I can think of using a gimp [Milanese hole] on the same hole size, same fabric, same hole thread will make it weaker - more prone to deformation + the facts I found from my real experiences [which make perfect logical sense, IMO].

 

[hippotamus]

Back to the lapel button hole, I am not sure if there is a fix way of executing it, but Prologue is definitely not the first one I saw.

Below is jacket by cavuto sartoria, if I am correct he was student / studying in the Liverano's.

What Prologue does on their breast pocket looks like a signature....but very similar to Delcuore

 

[Fishball]

Pure speculation: what he might not have continued to say is after changing to normal button holes [if he did], the deform still persists - of course we never know unless we ask him.
My ground is the gimp structure will not weaken the hole, there is no logical reasons I can think of using a gimp [Milanese hole] on the same hole size, same fabric, same hole thread will make it weaker - more prone to deformation + the facts I found from my real experiences [which make perfect logical sense, IMO].

Normal English buttonhole also used gimp, so I think it is the way how Milanese is sewn make it easier to deform.