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The Hong Kong Tailors Thread

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Silk, Apr 6, 2007.

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  1. bamboo

    bamboo Senior member

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    Well, at least I think @PekingRoadHK is logically consitent and has not changed his position. It is true that the discussion is sometimes repetetive and going arond the loop. I see the mission of revealing some truths about Hong Kong tailoring business was accomplished. Talking about the baotao example, if I am a Baotao user and I like it, I would not post the final product here because I would not have an upside of doing so.
     
  2. bamboo

    bamboo Senior member

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    Regarding the comparison with electorics industry, IMHO, Apple adds value, there are many tailors who don't. That is the problem.
     
  3. Hifilover

    Hifilover Senior member

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    First of all , customers go to tailor shops or baotao are their own choice . No doubt customers understand tailor shops need running cost . Price is higher than baotao direct. Tailor shops provide service , how to define add value ? Translation is an add value ? I found out there are too many assumptions.
     
  4. Hifilover

    Hifilover Senior member

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    I do not agree PekingRoadHK is consistent . He had done a lot in local forum . He mentioned earlier that he support tailor shops for visitors . It can let some Hong Kong people earn a living . But what he is doing now in here is to guide visitors to skip tailor shops to save money . Visitors save money and hong kong loose money . It comes to me he is selfish . I am never as good as him in debate . If he loves Hong Kong , i think he should stop here.
     
  5. Hifilover

    Hifilover Senior member

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    PekingRoadHK saud he is a consumer, he do not care the industry . A man without care for others . He keep on making Facebook accounts for Baotao . I think tailor shops will stop using those baotao. Baotao become depend on private customers . Baotao will charge higher , fabric shop will charge higher because they need more time to deal with customers or they can without tailor shops . Will the industry be better without a tailor shop group in long run . True name in here is hidden . Spending so much energy in such topic to harm tailor shops for what purpose ? If he has no real benefits , he is a physco .
     
  6. Hifilover

    Hifilover Senior member

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    @bamboo , i think you are talking about absolute valve . Tailor shops provide a nice clean place , changing rooms convinent location . Drinking a beer in Mandarin Hotel or 7-eleven is the same . Sleeping in a hotel and in a park is no difference ?
     
  7. PekingRoadHK

    PekingRoadHK Senior member

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    No change at all! I made it very clear in the very beginning.

    This is 2 different markets:
    1) BaoTou is for local consumers who have time to shop for their fabric somewhere else, and don't need the service from tailor shop.
    2) Tailor shop is for consumers who don't have time to shop for fabric somewhere else, and require the service from tailor shop. Tailor shops are one stop places.

    If you are traveling to HK, you want to spend your time efficiently. Mirador Mansion is not a place for you. You go to a bespoke tailor shop (they usually markup over 100%), you spend more to save your time and effort. Bespoke tailor shops do have wide selection of fabrics for your choice, and they have sales people to serve you. BaoTou don't carry any fabric collection, and you have to spend time to shop for your fabric somewhere else. As a foreigner, you will be confused in this situation.

    BaoTou customers know very well, they go BaoTou for the same products as HK bespoke tailor shops. Tailor shop customers know very well, they go tailor shops for services from tailor shops. There is no conflict of interest at all, as they are 2 different markets. There is no misleading and this is a reflection of the situation:

    If tailor shops don't have confidence on their added value, or don't provide value to consumers, they are worrying if they can survive in the market, and complain on my BaoTou issue in this thread. If tailor shops have good confidence on their added value, they have no worry about BaoTou issue, therefore, they will never complain on my BaoTou issue in this thread. This is a reflection of how tailor shops look at themself. We see the background of those who attack on my BaoTou issue, that proved they have no confidence on their own position.

    I don't see value from tailor shops, therefore, I will never go tailor shops again. The more attacks on my BaoTou issue, the more that proved those tailor shops don't have confidence on their value. Therefore, attacking my BaoTou issue will only show how foolish those tailor shops are.

    No, you are wrong. I raise an althernative, ie BaoTou. This is consumer choice. We decide where to go and what to pick. We, consumer don't have responsibility to protect the interest of any business. We, consumer do have a choice. We don't want to limit ourselves to tailor shop. Without my BaoTou issue, many local consumers will limit their choice to tailor shop only. Only a physco from tailor shop will deter consumers from discovering BaoTou issue. Wake up, HK is a free market.

    If I use your logic in an opposite direction: Tailor shops do not care for their customers. That's the end of tailor shops.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2017 at 3:45 AM
  8. bamboo

    bamboo Senior member

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    Economic modeling of the consequence of revelation of the information is an interesting subject, but it is far beyond the purpose of this thread I think.

    Regarding the second questioin, I am not certain what you mean by absolute value. Captain's bar in Mandarin adds a value to the same brown liquid or offers the independent value by providing an environment and an overall good experience which happens to come with the drink. About HKD 100 per pint? I am OK with that. If I am just craving for any beer and am infront of 711. I may buy a can and drink on the street as drinking in public place is not banned in Hong Kong. but, but there may be a not so nice bar (unfriendly staff, bad taste decoration, unclean bath room etc) which sells me a pint of the same drink at HKD80. I would avoid that. I see you are very concerned about your friend's tailoring business, but if he provides a good service at a reasonable price, there should be no problem. I remember there was some concern of BAR 711 in LKF from the local bar operators but 711 did not extiguish bars anywhere as far as I know.
     
  9. PekingRoadHK

    PekingRoadHK Senior member

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    Yes, BaoTou is a good alternative for consumers who don't need service from tailor shops, and we pay alot less for the same products.

    BaoTou customers are very happy about BaoTou info. We don't need to post photos of the final products here, because we are not sales of any BaoTou. I received many PMs from many members here, and from different forums, they said thank you for the BaoTou info. I quote a few here: "very helpful", "informative", "Great resources", "honestly quite impressed", "very enligtening", "really helpful", "Thank you for very much for your blog and mirador is really a hidden gem in hk.", ... etc.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2017 at 3:12 AM
  10. Hifilover

    Hifilover Senior member

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    @bamboo , do you think michael price is reasonable ?
    Btw , i am not worrying him at all . As far as i know , he is wealthy. I suggest him to let out the place to collect rent instead of running tailoring business .

    Afterall , the cost of making each suit by some top end tailor shops' own workshop are even lower than baotou charge to customers . They have enough volume to bring average cost lower. Baotou is a middle man whom sub contract to coat/trouser makers.

    @PekingRoadHK , can you source and provide information for makers? It gives further benefit to consumers . Not to mention in Shenzhen which is around hkd500 labour for each full canvas jacket . In Mirador TST , they are coat makers charge hkd1050 to make full canvas jacket with Shanghai workmanship or hkd400 for fused Canton workmanship. If you work harder , consumers get more benefit .
     
  11. PekingRoadHK

    PekingRoadHK Senior member

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    @ Hifilover

    read the blog, it shows how to search for suit factories from different provinces that charge RMB280, RMB345, RMB360, RMB388, RMB399, RMB428, RMB598, RMB630, RMB1,980, etc. Too many different grades for different pricing. They also produce garments for famous brands. Low cost suit factories is not a secret, everyone can get from many open info sources if one intends to find out! You think this is business secret?

    Wake up, this is 21st century! Mainland China is the world factory of various products. There is no way HK workshops can compete with them. Very large amount of HK manufacturers have moved to mainland China in the 80's. There is nothing much left in the 90's. You still think of "made in HK". Good luck to you. Move forward, this is 21st century, no matter you like it or not!

    You go Shenzhen and all over Guangdong, and have a look, there are foreigners from the world dealing with all kinds of factories there. Suit garment making is just a small part of them. They mainly deal with IT, high value added, design electronics, drones, robot, VR, solar products, electric cars, etc. If you want to deal with BioTech, go North and North east. We are HK people, we go China factories in different provinces to add high value for ourselves in different business areas. Go get value added like everyone else. What are you doing?

    Yahoo was hot in the 90's, and gone in 21st century. Things move fast, and you are still complaining BaoTou taking business away from tailor shops.

    If you don't know anything in mainland China, you can start from here for all kinds of products: http://www.cantonfair.org.cn/

    If you insist suit and garment, try Textiles & Garments
    http://www.cantonfair.org.cn/html/cantonfair/en/common/2012-09/8471.shtml#1

    If you have questions how to make suit and shirt of different grades for different pricing, you can talk to suit and shirt factories directly. If you want to know how they make suit and shirt fabrics, you can talk to fabric factories directly. They all come from different provinces exporting to the world (including world famous brands), and they are open to show you their factories if you are their potential customer.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2017 at 12:54 PM
  12. GBR

    GBR Senior member

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    @PekingRoadHK

    You have made your point ad nauseam but not shown any of your own garments etc. Can you not stop repeating it and boring everyone to death going round the circle yet again?
     
    Chowkin likes this.
  13. PekingRoadHK

    PekingRoadHK Senior member

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    Sharing info does not require showing own garments, and does not require to meet your personal standard.

    What do you think of Shenzhen made Milanese buttonhole? Did you know many HK tailor shops outsource their works to this kind of Shenzhen workshop?
    I taped this 2 videos, and witnessed how BaoTou works out. This is HK$2.xk Shanghai workmanship for a suit:
    Shenzhen made Milanese buttonhole
    ,
    compare for yourself:
    Milanese buttonhole / Boutonnière Milanaise
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OhQ3Yo2pYY
    Hand Made Milanese by Cifonelli

    How much Cifonelli charges for a tailor made suit with Milanese buttonhole?
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2017 at 4:43 AM
  14. kwoknero

    kwoknero Member

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    This is getting no where, can we have proper discussion on Hong Kong tailors (baotou included) strength/weakness? How individual tailors "house cut" different than each other and how they are able to evolve to stay ahead of business?
     
  15. MrBergschrund

    MrBergschrund Active Member

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    it was never about baotou vs tailor shop. it was never which gives the better option to customers. it was about PekingRoadHK doing advertisement /making a brand for his own selfishness.
    the reason why it is going in a loop is because PekingRoadHK has done so and unwilling to admit or explain why he has gone such distance to host multiple blogs, refers to them in multiple forums, and defend to them so dearly.
    if one has known so in-depth and promote baotou to that extent, why won't he explain both sides of the story with good will, let alone he never use his words, his posts, or his own photos.

    lastly for those who are need a translator to baotou or tailor, you can surely post in this forum, i am surely many are willing to do so without a charge and work out things out with you!
     
  16. PekingRoadHK

    PekingRoadHK Senior member

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    I think "house cut" follows the tailor. When the tailor shop change the tailor, they have different "house cut". I think strength/weakness, it all depends on the customer.

    2 major kinds: Shanghai workmanship and Guangdong workmanship.
    All BaoTou has different standards. A brief:
    For Shanghai workmanship: I say classic cut and modern cut, or say British cut Vs Italian cut.
    For Guangdong workmanship: all different cuts.

    Everyone has different standards and requirements, therefore, there is no single tailor/BaoTou for everyone. If we go to a tailor shop, they might have a few tailors for different cuttings.

    Tailor shops pass the work to BaoTou. After cutting and fitting, the rest is done by the workshop. Suits from different tailor shops could be produced by the same BaoTou and workshop. Tailor shops will never tell about their BaoTou and BaoTou workshops.
    over 200 pages of tailor shop advertisements, you don't call that advertisements. We all see the conflict of interest of tailor shops. They don't like alternative, but we, consumers like alternative. We, consumers don't have to clarify to tailor shop associates, because tailor shop associates will never accept any opinion for alternative.

    Local consumers don't need translator. Travelers don't have time for fabric shopping for CMT, and they don't need BaoTou.

    This is 2 different markets for the same product:
    1) BaoTou is for local consumers who have time to shop for their fabric somewhere else, and don't need the service from tailor shop.
    2) Tailor shop is for consumers who don't have time to shop for fabric somewhere else, and require the service from tailor shop. Tailor shops are one stop places.

    There are good and bad BaoTou, and there are good and bad tailor shops.
    So, when you talk about the good and bad side of BaoTou, it is just the same as good and bad side of tailor shops. Same things.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2017 at 1:03 PM
  17. MrBergschrund

    MrBergschrund Active Member

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    Travelers don't have time for fabric shopping
    For once, you have been honest! So travellers and foreigners please forget about baotou as you have to shop for fabrics yourself and you wont have time to do so! as pointed out by PekingRoadHK.

    but then why are you here advertising your blog if you have pointed out it will come to no end to foreigners? ( as pointed out by hifilover)
     
  18. PekingRoadHK

    PekingRoadHK Senior member

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    what for once??????
    This is very clear in the beginning. You and hifilover didn't read, and ask the same question again and again, therefore, I answer the same things again and again. You ask me the same question next time, I will still give you the same answer next time.

    This is 2 different markets for the same product:
    1) BaoTou is for local consumers who have time to shop for their fabric somewhere else, and don't need the service from tailor shop.
    2) Tailor shop is for consumers who don't have time to shop for fabric somewhere else, and require the service from tailor shop. Tailor shops are one stop places.

    If you are traveling to HK, you want to spend your time efficiently. Mirador Mansion is not a place for you. You go to a bespoke tailor shop (they usually markup over 100%), you spend more to save your time and effort. Bespoke tailor shops do have wide selection of fabrics for your choice, and they have sales people to serve you. BaoTou don't carry any fabric collection, and you have to spend time to shop for your fabric somewhere else. As a foreigner, you will be confused in this situation.

    If tailor shops don't have confidence on their added value, or don't provide value to consumers, they are worrying if they can survive in the market, and complain on my BaoTou issue in this thread. If tailor shops have good confidence on their added value, they have no worry about BaoTou issue, therefore, they will never complain on my BaoTou issue in this thread. This is a reflection of how tailor shops look at themself. We see the background of those who attack on my BaoTou issue, that proved they have no confidence on their own position.

    I don't see value from tailor shops, therefore, I will never go tailor shops again. The more attacks on my BaoTou issue, the more that proved those tailor shops don't have confidence on their value. Therefore, attacking my BaoTou issue will only show how foolish those tailor shops are.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2017 at 1:43 PM
  19. Hifilover

    Hifilover Senior member

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    Value of a middle man is where to source and find the buyer . If the informations is public open by someone on internet . Buyers will go direct. Middle man meaning becomes little / none . What PekingRoadHK did will kill most tailor shops . Bao tou will become front line to customers .
    There are many kinds of people in this world , there maybe another or more PekingRoadHK exist . Nobody can control .
     
  20. Hifilover

    Hifilover Senior member

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    If PekingRoadHK's mind to help consumers, why he protect Baotou privacy (such as working for which tailor shops) but not tailor shop privacy . It looks to me , he is protecting Bao tou . Consumers will be happy to know which baotou works for which tailor shops instead of pointing no where . He mentioned over 100 baotou and i am pretty sure he knows which tailor shops use which baotou .
     

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