PekingRoadHK
Senior Member
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2015
- Messages
- 763
- Reaction score
- 188
The Hong Kong BaoTou Tailors and Fabric Shops for CMT Thread
I am a local Hong Kong consumer, I start this thread to share my experiences and opinions on this issue.
1) CMT: Cut, Make, Trim
We go to any tailor shop, we pick the fabric and have the tailor to make the suit. An alternative is we purchase the fabric somewhere else, and have a tailor to make the suit. A tailor produces the suit with our fabric, and this is CMT. The issue is where to purchase the right fabric and which tailor to go.
2) What is BaoTou?
Mirador Mansion in TST is the center of tailors’ workshops in Hong Kong since 1960's. In this building, there are tailors for men suit and shirt, women dress suit and shirt, and uniform for public and private sectors. Men suit tailors in Mirador Mansion are the tailors behind 95% tailor shops in HK, including top tier tailor shops, except WW and AC (they have their own workshops). What does it mean? It means 95% tailor shops in HK are outsourcing their suit making work to tailors in Mirador Mansion. These tailors are actually the cutter, this is the most important part of suit making, and the rest of suit making is located in their Shenzhen workshops. We call them "BaoTou" in Cantonese. They are not employees of any tailor shop, they are self-employed running their own workshops.
How does this outsourcing system work? Each tailor shop is outsourcing their work to a few independent tailors (BaoTou) in Mirador, and each tailor (BaoTou) is working with a few tailor shops at the same time. Tailor shops provide services to retail customers, display and sell fabrics, provide a place for measurement and fitting. Once tailor shops take the order and make measurement, they order the fabric and pass the work to their BaoTou. BaoTou will do the cutting in their Mirador workshops, and the unfinished products will be passed to the shops for customers' fitting. After fitting, BaoTou take care of all suit making work in their Shenzhen workshops with their Shenzhen teammates. The finished products have to be checked by the BaoTou before delivery to the shops. If there are any alterations, BaoTou will take care of it. There are over 100,000 workshops of all kinds of garment in Shenzhen, Dongguan, Guangzhou, and all over Guangdong province serving the world.
There are about 100 tailors in this building from 3/F to 16/F, with an average of 8 tailors in each floor. If you want an elegant suit, you are expecting Shanghai workmanship from bespoke for 2 weeks completion. If you insist 3/4 days completion, Guangdong workmanship can do a fine job for a basic daily suit. They are independent tailors (BaoTou) working with 95% tailors shops, including bespoke tailor shops in HK. Don’t expect service from tailor workshops, they are NOT retailers. They are old folks, and well experienced tailors in HK. Please keep in mind, 3/F to 16/F is NOT a shopping mall for you to shop around. This building is full of tailor workshops and guesthouses. BaoTou always ignore strangers asking stupid questions. They are like technical people, they are not commercial people, this is their character. In a short form, BaoTou are tailors behind retail tailor shops. They make suits for tailor shops, and they make suits for local customers who can communicate with them. The end product is the same when we deal with BaoTou directly, and the price is much lower than we go retail tailor shops.
Cantonese language only, HK$ cash only, no credit card, no paypal, no online shopping, no wifi, no computer, no tablet, no whatsapp or wechat or fax, no facebook, no mail order, no decoration, no changing room. It means this is for local people only. If you are a local customer without Cantonese skill, you need to bring your own Cantonese translator. Mon - Sat, 3pm - 7pm.
If you are traveling to HK, you want to spend your time efficiently. Mirador Mansion is not a place for you. You go to a bespoke tailor shop (they usually markup over 100%), you spend more to save your time and effort. Bespoke tailor shops do have wide selection of fabrics for your choice, and they have sales people to serve you. BaoTou don't carry any fabric collection, and you have to spend time to shop for your fabric somewhere else. As a foreigner, you will be confused in this situation.
A few tailors and BaoTou told me the same, 2/3 days with 1 fitting is quite a rush job for a decent suit, expect minor defects, not much time for alterations. Even though they might charge something extra for 2/3 days delivery, they suggest 4/5 days with 1 fitting for expecting better results for a little more. We usually expect about 2 weeks completion with 1 fitting in most cases. This goes for both tailor shops and BaoTou. When a person is in a rush, I suggest to go brand name tailor shops, they mail finished products to overseas customers, they got emails to follow up things, and they speak English. I see most BaoTou are honest people, but I don't think BaoTou will follow up anything after their customers left HK. I guess the worst situation after a customer left HK: it's a very nice suit, BaoTou is waiting for the customer to pick up the suit in the workshop, while the customer is waiting for the BaoTou to mail the suit to him. Big confusion might happen! BaoTou are like technical people, they are not commercial people, the unexpected might happen sometimes. Therefore, I don't suggest foreigners staying in HK for less than a month to go BaoTou.
3) My case
There are at least 30 tailors who are willing to make suits for everyone (if you speak Cantonese) during low season. They are too busy during high season (Sept to Chinese new year), they are really open during low season (March to August) . For me, I am a local consumer, I go for CMT instead of going to tailor shops. I paid HK$2.xk for workmanship for a full canvas suit + cost of fabric which I need to purchase somewhere else in HK. For example, I am 5 foot 10, regular size, I need 3.3yard for a single breasted suit basic style. I paid HK$200 something/yard for VBC fabric, HK$400 something/yard for summer Dormeuil and Scabal fabric, HK$600 something/yard for all seasons Holland & Sherry fabric, and HK$600 something/yard for winter wool or cashere wool. That means the total cost of a suit is HK$3.xk for VBC fabrics, HK$4.xk for Dormeuil and Scabal summer fabrics, HK$5.xk for Holland & Sherry all seasons fabrics, HK$5xk for winter suit, etc. If you just want basic suit, you might be interested to make a fused suit, and the cost of workmanship is HK$1.3k. For low cost fused suit, HK$1.3k workmanship + HK$800 for VBC = HK$2.1k.
I am not a sales, and this is not customer service for any business, I don't recommend any tailor shop or BaoTou tailor or fabric shop or whatever. Everyone has different needs and requirements, therefore, there is nothing that will suit everyone. Do your own research, and pick for yourself. Don't like it, don't have time for your research, then don't go for it.
4) Retail tailor shops Vs BaoTou tailors
a) Retail tailor shop is for consumers who don't have time to shop for fabric and require services. This is a one-shop place for everything.
b) BaoTou tailor is for consumers who have time to shop for fabric and don't require service.
They are for 2 different consumer markets. Tailor shop customers go tailor shops, and BaoTou customers go BaoTou. There are good and bad tailor shops, and there are good and bad BaoTou. Everyone has different standards and requirements, therefore, there is no single tailor shop and BaoTou for everyone. We, consumers pick for ourselves according to our own needs, and this is shopping. Both exists at the same time. You don't like a), go for b). You don't like b), go for a). We have different garments for different occasions, we go to both. There is no argument on this issue.
There are a few types of tailor shops in HK:
a) Tailor shops with their own in house tailors and workshop in HK: Their in house tailors will do the measurement, cutting and fitting for the customers, and they produce the suits in their own workshops. They got the best quality control. Very few of them can be found in HK.
b) Tailor shops with their own in house tailors do the measurement, cutting and fitting for the customers, and outsource the production to BaoTou workshops.
c) Tailors shops with BaoTou do the measurement, cutting and fitting for the customers, and outsource the production to BaoTou workshops.
d) Tailor shops with their trained people do the measurement and fitting, BaoTou take care of the cutting and production.
e) Tailor shops with their untrained people / sales people do the measurement and fitting, BaoTou take care of the cutting and production.
a) b) c) The cutter and the fitter meets the customer face to face and sees the real situation for best result.
e) Untrained people / sales people might make wrong measurement and fitting, BaoTou can only cut the fabric and produce the suit according to the wrong data from untrained people. This is the worst situation, this is where many complaints come from.
Among all HK bespoke tailor shops discussed in this forum, a lot of their ex-tailors and BaoTou for suit and shirt can be found in Mirador Mansion. I prefer to deal with them directly.
Google search : " Tailors (BaoTou) in Mirador for CMT suit HK. " or " suitcmt hk ", and you are there!
Coming for my next few posts:
5) Fabric shops, suits and shirts
6) Productions
7) Cases review
8) My experiences
If you prefer tailor shops instead of BaoTou Tailors and Fabric Shops for CMT, go here: The Hong Kong Tailors Thread
https://www.styleforum.net/threads/the-hong-kong-tailors-thread.33568/
I am a local Hong Kong consumer, I start this thread to share my experiences and opinions on this issue.
1) CMT: Cut, Make, Trim
We go to any tailor shop, we pick the fabric and have the tailor to make the suit. An alternative is we purchase the fabric somewhere else, and have a tailor to make the suit. A tailor produces the suit with our fabric, and this is CMT. The issue is where to purchase the right fabric and which tailor to go.
2) What is BaoTou?
Mirador Mansion in TST is the center of tailors’ workshops in Hong Kong since 1960's. In this building, there are tailors for men suit and shirt, women dress suit and shirt, and uniform for public and private sectors. Men suit tailors in Mirador Mansion are the tailors behind 95% tailor shops in HK, including top tier tailor shops, except WW and AC (they have their own workshops). What does it mean? It means 95% tailor shops in HK are outsourcing their suit making work to tailors in Mirador Mansion. These tailors are actually the cutter, this is the most important part of suit making, and the rest of suit making is located in their Shenzhen workshops. We call them "BaoTou" in Cantonese. They are not employees of any tailor shop, they are self-employed running their own workshops.
How does this outsourcing system work? Each tailor shop is outsourcing their work to a few independent tailors (BaoTou) in Mirador, and each tailor (BaoTou) is working with a few tailor shops at the same time. Tailor shops provide services to retail customers, display and sell fabrics, provide a place for measurement and fitting. Once tailor shops take the order and make measurement, they order the fabric and pass the work to their BaoTou. BaoTou will do the cutting in their Mirador workshops, and the unfinished products will be passed to the shops for customers' fitting. After fitting, BaoTou take care of all suit making work in their Shenzhen workshops with their Shenzhen teammates. The finished products have to be checked by the BaoTou before delivery to the shops. If there are any alterations, BaoTou will take care of it. There are over 100,000 workshops of all kinds of garment in Shenzhen, Dongguan, Guangzhou, and all over Guangdong province serving the world.
There are about 100 tailors in this building from 3/F to 16/F, with an average of 8 tailors in each floor. If you want an elegant suit, you are expecting Shanghai workmanship from bespoke for 2 weeks completion. If you insist 3/4 days completion, Guangdong workmanship can do a fine job for a basic daily suit. They are independent tailors (BaoTou) working with 95% tailors shops, including bespoke tailor shops in HK. Don’t expect service from tailor workshops, they are NOT retailers. They are old folks, and well experienced tailors in HK. Please keep in mind, 3/F to 16/F is NOT a shopping mall for you to shop around. This building is full of tailor workshops and guesthouses. BaoTou always ignore strangers asking stupid questions. They are like technical people, they are not commercial people, this is their character. In a short form, BaoTou are tailors behind retail tailor shops. They make suits for tailor shops, and they make suits for local customers who can communicate with them. The end product is the same when we deal with BaoTou directly, and the price is much lower than we go retail tailor shops.
Cantonese language only, HK$ cash only, no credit card, no paypal, no online shopping, no wifi, no computer, no tablet, no whatsapp or wechat or fax, no facebook, no mail order, no decoration, no changing room. It means this is for local people only. If you are a local customer without Cantonese skill, you need to bring your own Cantonese translator. Mon - Sat, 3pm - 7pm.
If you are traveling to HK, you want to spend your time efficiently. Mirador Mansion is not a place for you. You go to a bespoke tailor shop (they usually markup over 100%), you spend more to save your time and effort. Bespoke tailor shops do have wide selection of fabrics for your choice, and they have sales people to serve you. BaoTou don't carry any fabric collection, and you have to spend time to shop for your fabric somewhere else. As a foreigner, you will be confused in this situation.
A few tailors and BaoTou told me the same, 2/3 days with 1 fitting is quite a rush job for a decent suit, expect minor defects, not much time for alterations. Even though they might charge something extra for 2/3 days delivery, they suggest 4/5 days with 1 fitting for expecting better results for a little more. We usually expect about 2 weeks completion with 1 fitting in most cases. This goes for both tailor shops and BaoTou. When a person is in a rush, I suggest to go brand name tailor shops, they mail finished products to overseas customers, they got emails to follow up things, and they speak English. I see most BaoTou are honest people, but I don't think BaoTou will follow up anything after their customers left HK. I guess the worst situation after a customer left HK: it's a very nice suit, BaoTou is waiting for the customer to pick up the suit in the workshop, while the customer is waiting for the BaoTou to mail the suit to him. Big confusion might happen! BaoTou are like technical people, they are not commercial people, the unexpected might happen sometimes. Therefore, I don't suggest foreigners staying in HK for less than a month to go BaoTou.
3) My case
There are at least 30 tailors who are willing to make suits for everyone (if you speak Cantonese) during low season. They are too busy during high season (Sept to Chinese new year), they are really open during low season (March to August) . For me, I am a local consumer, I go for CMT instead of going to tailor shops. I paid HK$2.xk for workmanship for a full canvas suit + cost of fabric which I need to purchase somewhere else in HK. For example, I am 5 foot 10, regular size, I need 3.3yard for a single breasted suit basic style. I paid HK$200 something/yard for VBC fabric, HK$400 something/yard for summer Dormeuil and Scabal fabric, HK$600 something/yard for all seasons Holland & Sherry fabric, and HK$600 something/yard for winter wool or cashere wool. That means the total cost of a suit is HK$3.xk for VBC fabrics, HK$4.xk for Dormeuil and Scabal summer fabrics, HK$5.xk for Holland & Sherry all seasons fabrics, HK$5xk for winter suit, etc. If you just want basic suit, you might be interested to make a fused suit, and the cost of workmanship is HK$1.3k. For low cost fused suit, HK$1.3k workmanship + HK$800 for VBC = HK$2.1k.
I am not a sales, and this is not customer service for any business, I don't recommend any tailor shop or BaoTou tailor or fabric shop or whatever. Everyone has different needs and requirements, therefore, there is nothing that will suit everyone. Do your own research, and pick for yourself. Don't like it, don't have time for your research, then don't go for it.
4) Retail tailor shops Vs BaoTou tailors
a) Retail tailor shop is for consumers who don't have time to shop for fabric and require services. This is a one-shop place for everything.
b) BaoTou tailor is for consumers who have time to shop for fabric and don't require service.
They are for 2 different consumer markets. Tailor shop customers go tailor shops, and BaoTou customers go BaoTou. There are good and bad tailor shops, and there are good and bad BaoTou. Everyone has different standards and requirements, therefore, there is no single tailor shop and BaoTou for everyone. We, consumers pick for ourselves according to our own needs, and this is shopping. Both exists at the same time. You don't like a), go for b). You don't like b), go for a). We have different garments for different occasions, we go to both. There is no argument on this issue.
There are a few types of tailor shops in HK:
a) Tailor shops with their own in house tailors and workshop in HK: Their in house tailors will do the measurement, cutting and fitting for the customers, and they produce the suits in their own workshops. They got the best quality control. Very few of them can be found in HK.
b) Tailor shops with their own in house tailors do the measurement, cutting and fitting for the customers, and outsource the production to BaoTou workshops.
c) Tailors shops with BaoTou do the measurement, cutting and fitting for the customers, and outsource the production to BaoTou workshops.
d) Tailor shops with their trained people do the measurement and fitting, BaoTou take care of the cutting and production.
e) Tailor shops with their untrained people / sales people do the measurement and fitting, BaoTou take care of the cutting and production.
a) b) c) The cutter and the fitter meets the customer face to face and sees the real situation for best result.
e) Untrained people / sales people might make wrong measurement and fitting, BaoTou can only cut the fabric and produce the suit according to the wrong data from untrained people. This is the worst situation, this is where many complaints come from.
Among all HK bespoke tailor shops discussed in this forum, a lot of their ex-tailors and BaoTou for suit and shirt can be found in Mirador Mansion. I prefer to deal with them directly.
Google search : " Tailors (BaoTou) in Mirador for CMT suit HK. " or " suitcmt hk ", and you are there!
Coming for my next few posts:
5) Fabric shops, suits and shirts
6) Productions
7) Cases review
8) My experiences
If you prefer tailor shops instead of BaoTou Tailors and Fabric Shops for CMT, go here: The Hong Kong Tailors Thread
https://www.styleforum.net/threads/the-hong-kong-tailors-thread.33568/
Last edited:
But I can't guarantee he can give you the right answer! 
