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The Hong Kong BaoTou Tailors and Fabric Shops for CMT Thread

PekingRoadHK

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I'm wondering where the costs go too. Just very random guesses:

(RMB:HKD ~ 1.2 to 1)

My sport coat: 2.6K HKD (one fitting included)

Cutting / labor - unknown
Sewing - 200-500 RMB? (I heard top-grade sewers in southern China charge 500RMB to sew coats, so jackets might be cheaper. Dunno about those workshops up north though but they're likely more expensive)
Shipping - under 100RMB one way
Rent and utilities - unknown
Basting (if done at Mirador, like mine, as Ng told me; one-off): presumably no more than 200HKD probably but rates depend on how well-basted you want the item to be. Basting can take less than 2 hours or more than a whole day.

If anything, you might see it's not profitable to have more than one fitting. Big errors mean you have to have the unfinished product resewn, and if they stem from errors in cutting, especially if around the neck, things can be unsalvageable.

This is also why, and I am making this up, some sifus leave the sleeve cutting to Chinese workshops (more cost?).
Starting from #1356 Sept 7 and up to #1590 Oct 2, you have set up this for slander. Obviously, what you have done is not consumer behaviour. How much you have spent for this set up? workmanship HK$2.6k + farbic ? Its funny to see you have spent a few HK$k for this set up!

Baotou customers can easily see your intention since the beginning. By looking at this "before and after" comparison, average primary school students can also summarize what you have done. No need to argue, you don't need to quote anything from your side anymore. A simple "before and after" comparison explained everything already:

Photo from Baotou tailor facebook, before you picked up your jacket, this is your sleeves:

Photo from your #1,545, after you picked up your jacket, this is your sleeves:


You tried this slandering in the beginning of unmatched square and sleeves lines, I quoted photos from baotou tailor facebook to clarify things. You knew you can't keep up this square slandering, then, you switched to the sleeves slandering.




Everyone sees you just want to repeat all the nonsense in this Baotou thread!
 
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PekingRoadHK

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There are 2 different markets in HK:

1) Retail tailor shops
This is a one stop place for consumers to pick the right fabric, styling, measurement, fitting, orders, and customer services like emails, mail orders, credit cards, wi-fi, English, etc.
Only very few bespoke tailor shops have got their own in-house tailors and workshops. Others are mainly outsourcing their work to Baotou tailors. Expensive bespoke tailor shops are charging high price to cover their rental cost in C B D areas. Other than tailor shops with in-house tailors and workshops, there are mainly 2 kinds of tailor shops:
a) the tailors are the boss, manage their own tailor shops, they do the measurement, fitting, and outsource the work to BaoTou.
b) the sales people manage their tailor shops, they do the measurement, and outsource the work to BaoTou.

2) Baotou tailor in and out of Mirador Mansion
We have to shop for fabrics someplace else, we can do that online or search for vintage brand names for budget in local shops. We deal with Baotou tailors directly, by-pass tailor shops. We got direct communication with Baotou, and we save cost. We can’t expect services from Baotou. There are around 100 Baotou tailors in Mirador Mansion, and unknown number of Baotou outside of Mirador. What are the backgrounds of Baotou? From my observation, less than 10% come from most expensive bespoke in HK (WX Chxn, Asxot Chxng, Bxromon, A Mxn Hxng Chxong, Gordxn Yxo, etc.), they are mainly retired in-house tailors decades ago or their Baotou tailors. The rest come from ordinary in house tailor shops in the old days or they are Baotou tailors for ordinary tailor shops, some are good and some are bad. A few retired tailors work at home, they collect orders from Mirador Baotou (cutter), this is suits made in HK.

Everyone has different taste and needs, and there is no Baotou or tailor shop that can best serve all kinds of consumer. We are consumers, we pick whatever we prefer, we don’t need to follow others. There are too many Baotou, I can never try all, therefore, I don’t have a ranking for Baotou. I don’t recommend what to pick. People have been asking me what I picked, I told what I have picked for my choice. I tell and share things whatever I prefer. I don't take order from anyone. Sales people from tailor shops don’t like what I told about Baotou, this is not my concern. I don’t need to make them happy.

Why did I make the Baotou blog and tell about Baotou?
I want old Baotou to survive as long as they can work. I don't want them retire. They are happy to take more orders from consumers directly, and by-pass tailor shops! They survive, and I don’t need to go tailor shops anymore. Some consumers like it, and we are happy to go Baotou. Some don’t like it, that’s fine, they go to their tailor shops. This is our choice. Someone don’t like we got choice, I know they are sales people from tailor shops making troubles all the time. They want consumers to stop going to Baotou, they repeat all the bullshit and nonsense to fool people. Sale people have cheap cheap thinking HK people don't help HK people. They are wrong! We are HK, we help HK people. We are consumers, we know what to pick!

People have been asking me the same questions again and again, and this is the same answer. I don’t charge Baotou a thing and I don’t run their business. Tailor business does not make money. I have no interest in this business at all. I have no business or anything related to this industry. I am a consumer only. What is my background? None of your business! I knew jerks always making trouble, that’s why I got different last names, different numbers, and different backgrounds to tell different Baotou at different floors since the beginning. I do this spy things to avoid trouble from sales people and jerks.

I teach BaoTou to set up their own webs and all the things they need to know to manage their online activities. They all have different characters and ability to manage that (more or less).

Why they got photos of similar style in their webs? Because I teach them how to take photos in the same style and show them how to upload their photos by their own cell phones. Some Baotou are young enough to learn, and some are still practicing. Depending on the needs of Baotou, some are posting good and bad photos once awhile. Why? They post once awhile to show up to their relatives and to their old friends outside HK, to prove they got healthy daily life, working happily everyday. Baotou do things for different reasons including their online activities. After all, they make garments to consumers, they don’t teach how to make garments in Mirador. Anyone wants to learn, they go take courses in class, Baotou tailors are happy to teach in real classrooms. Sales people and jerks doing stupid things and telling all the bullshit are just wasting time!
 
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Warrant_Buffet

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Guys, did I get Peke mad?👉🏼👈🏼

I'll get my second fitting on another jacket. That one I waited for longer than this so let's find out if they somehow use different standards. I'll sue that scoundrel if he can't cut sleeves like Ng does. (He did alterations right in front of me in the middle of a fitting session while some others, including the retired Yau sifu since he happened to be there, gave advice. I thank him for the professionalism.)

Just to remind y'all: if you know tailoring yourself, you are a customer. Neither Savile Row losers nor sifus would welcome you...🙃 (dunno why tailors also order suits from world-class greats though... they must've hidden their identities. Oh and sifus including Ng do do business with tailor shops BTW). But yeah let's not know anything about tailoring and have the Road guide you to the Ng. All for Peke's likes on Ng's IG 👍🏼

But I promise that I'll pay for alterations if I lose weight and as a result run out of shirts to wear. I'll try not to stare at the tailor like they owe me money for altering shirts finished months ago. 😅
 
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Warrant_Buffet

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Aiya wait I forgot to say I happen to be a customer myself. I pick what I choose, and if something seems off about my choices, I do tell, albeit clumsily and in long sentences. I'm grateful that you are willing to spend your precious time to deal with my frivolous remarks. 17 pages man, that's a lot!

To spend 2.6k HKD on a one-fitting coat just to critique would be unthinkable for a salesperson-employee, not to mention I'm just a lower classman who cannot afford more than that amount for proper menswear. The WW Chan article I showed did mention that they do additional fittings (and these websites - 1, 2, and 3 - touch on, to different degrees, the importance of more than one fitting session, but maybe they're beneath Ng the King of Sleeves), although I'm sure the practice needs no place at Mirador, the central hub of arch-cutters. And quite frankly, replies in red letters at 3am screams terror... glad I wasn't checking when I woke up to relieve myself... I would've sobbed

I'll continue to trick people and they will continue to listen to you instead of me. I think that's really what everyone is thinking, so... I hope you do enjoy yourself and ignore the senseless onslaught of mine. You don't bother with mouth-breathers to desecrate yourself unless you belong to that category or are in fact beneath that, y'know🙂 And I live to protect your face and health (meant to type “would love to” but this works too)
 

Warrant_Buffet

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There are 2 different markets in HK:

1) Retail tailor shops
This is a one stop place for consumers to pick the right fabric, styling, measurement, fitting, orders, and customer services like emails, mail orders, credit cards, wi-fi, English, etc.
Only very few bespoke tailor shops have got their own in house tailors and workshops. Others are mainly outsourcing their work to Baotou tailors. Expensive bespoke tailor shops are charging high price to cover their rental cost in conservative business dress. Other than tailor shops with in house tailors and workshops, there are mainly 2 kinds of tailor shops:
a) the tailors are the boss, manage their own tailor shops, they do the measurement, fitting, and outsource the work to BaoTou.
b) the sales people manage their tailor shops, they do the measurement, and outsource the work to BaoTou.

2) Baotou tailor in and out of Mirador Mansion
We have to shop for fabrics someplace else, we can do that online or search for vintage brand names for budget in local shops. We deal with Baotou tailors directly, by-pass tailor shops. We got direct communication with Baotou, and we save cost. We can’t expect services from Baotou. There are around 100 Baotou tailors in Mirador Mansion, and unknown number of Baotou outside of Mirador. What are the backgrounds of Baotou? From my observation, less than 10% come from most expensive bespoke in HK (WX Chxn, Asxot Chxng, Bxromon, A Mxn Hxng Chxong, Gordxn Yxo, etc.), they are mainly retired in house tailors decades ago or their Baotou tailors. The rest come from ordinary in house tailor shops in the old days or they are Baotou tailors for ordinary tailor shops, some are good and some are bad. A few retired tailors work at home, they collect orders from Mirador Baotou (cutter), this is suits made in HK.

Everyone has different needs. We are consumers, we pick whatever we prefer, we don’t need to follow others. There are too many, I can never try all, therefore, I don’t have a ranking for Baotou. I don’t suggest what to pick. People have been asking me what I picked, I told what I have picked for my choice. I tell and share things whatever I prefer. I don't take order from anyone. Sales people from tailor shops don’t like what I say about Baotou, this is not my concern. I don’t need to make them happy.

Why did I make the Baotou blog and tell about Baotou?
I want old Baotou to survive as long as they can work. I don't want they retire. They are happy to take more orders from consumers directly, and by-pass tailor shops! They survive, and I don’t need to go tailor shops anymore. Some consumers like it, and we are happy to go Baotou. Some don’t like it, that’s fine, they go to their tailor shops. This is our choice. Someone don’t like we got choice, I know they are sales people from tailor shops making troubles all the time. They want consumers to stop going to Baotou, they repeat all the bullshit and nonsense to fool people. Sale people have cheap cheap thinking HK people don't help HK people. They are wrong! We are HK, we help HK people. We are consumers, we know what to pick!

People have been asking me the same questions again and again, and this is the same answer. I don’t charge Baotou a thing and I don’t run their business. Tailor business does not make money. I have no interest in this business at all. I have no business or anything related to this business. I am a consumer only. What is my background? None of your business! I knew sales people always making trouble, that’s why I got different last names, different numbers, and different backgrounds to tell different Baotou at different floors since the beginning. I do this spy things to avoid trouble from sales people and jerks.

I teach BaoTou to set up their own webs and all the things they need to know to manage their online activities. They all have different characters and ability to manage that (more or less).

Why they got photos of similar style in their webs? Because I teach them how to take photos in the same style and upload their photos. Some Baotou are young enough to learn, and some are still practicing. Depending on the needs of Baotou, some are posting good and bad photos once awhile. Why? They have reasons, they post once awhile to show up to their relatives and to their old friends outside HK, to prove they got healthy daily life, working happily everyday. Baotou do things for different reasons including their online activities. After all, they make garments to consumers, they don’t teach how to make garments in Mirador. Anyone wants to learn, they go take courses in class, Baotou tailors are happy to teach in real classrooms. Sales people and jerks doing stupid things and telling all the bullshit are just wasting time.
Ok...
ezgif.com-gif-maker (2).gif
ezgif.com-gif-maker (3).gif

Also comparing my jacket with my friend's:
20221003_220209.jpg

20221003_220747.jpg

20221003_220318.jpg

20221003_220527.jpg

I think mine is better!😍
 

Warrant_Buffet

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HK people helping HK people is a noble idea that I can advocate. A sifu based in Causeway Bay is connected with a local workshop. Full canvas suits 7K HKD up. Others pay Chinese workshops to follow up on their work, and courier was a headache. At the beginning of year, Ng told me suits could not be shipped to workshops because Americans were sending parcels with viruses to China. Anyway, the point is I inadvertently became a HKer helping Chinese people.🤨
 
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PekingRoadHK

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"before and after" comparison
before and after...jpg


Photos proved it's condition before you picked up your jacket. You spent a few HK$k, you made a mess to your own jacket, you can't blame others. You are only playing games to yourself!

Tomorrow, you can wear your jacket to go swimming before taking more photos again, the result will be even better!

sleeves line not level..jpg


Your friend's jacket failed your test, by your standard!

Btw, this is not your private property. You can't stop others from making comments here.
Like I said before, I tell different faked stories and strange things to different baotou tailors at different floors to mislead those who have been checking on me. That tells me the channel how they check on me.
 
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Warrant_Buffet

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"before and after" comparison
View attachment 1839386

Photos proved it's condition before you picked up your jacket. You spent a few HK$k, you made a mess to your own jacket, you can't blame others. You are only playing games to yourself!

Tomorrow, you can wear your jacket to go swimming before taking more photos again, the result will be even better!

View attachment 1839387

Your friend's jacket failed your test, by your standard!

Btw, this is not your private property. You can't stop others from making comments here.
Like I said before, I tell different faked stories and strange things to different baotou tailors at different floors to mislead those who have been checking on me. That tells me the channel how they check on me.
You want EVERYBODY to make comments on the coat?🙈

I realized I should retake Geometry. I did not ask any tailor about this, and so its just my theory here: sleeves hang vertically; the front body not so much. The darts and shaping (canvassed or not) cause the fabric to be taken in and up at the same time, hence the (almost?) inevitable pattern mismatching from the shoulder down unless there is absolutely no waist suppression or chest shaping. This is also why, by “pattern matching”, you want patterns of the sleeve to be level with those of the jacket front at the armhole area, IF POSSIBLE; the rest depends on your physique and the coat's silhouette.

But anyway dude, how was your midnight relief? Replying to a lunatic like me at almost 4am about a coat you don't own (but cut by your favorite sifu) sounds like such a chore😣 I hope my coat didn't keep your 🤏 up all night
 
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Warrant_Buffet

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1) Retail tailor shops
This is a one stop place for consumers to pick the right fabric, styling, measurement, fitting, orders, and customer services like emails, mail orders, credit cards, wi-fi, English, etc.
Only very few bespoke tailor shops have got their own in-house tailors and workshops.
Do Chxn and Chxng outsource their stuff too? Can I go check with them? Would Patrxck brown his pants and make a mess?🥶

2) Baotou tailor in and out of Mirador Mansion
From my observation, less than 10% come from most expensive bespoke in HK (WX Chxn, Asxot Chxng, Bxromon, A Mxn Hxng Chxong, Gordxn Yxo, etc.), they are mainly retired in-house tailors decades ago or their Baotou tailors.
Gotta go sue these shops for not keeping these world-changing cutters hired. I feel offended😡

I want old Baotou to survive as long as they can work. I don't want them retire. They are happy to take more orders from consumers directly, and by-pass tailor shops! They survive, and I don’t need to go tailor shops anymore.

Tailor business does not make money. I have no interest in this business at all. I have no business or anything related to this industry.
I should repent for having this mentality. Maybe it's because I pay them so little that they can only “survive”... I dare not say that this applies to all tailor shops, but many do give their cutters monthly salaries. Of course there are exceptions: one sewer I know is paid per order (~2.5k hkd for sewing and shaping... perhaps basting too? But not cutting)

I teach BaoTou to set up their own webs and all the things they need to know to manage their online activities. They all have different characters and ability to manage that (more or less).

Why they got photos of similar style in their webs? Because I teach them how to take photos in the same style and show them how to upload their photos by their own cell phones.
Disclaimer: Ng says he doesn't really know English or know how to use the phone that well
Screenshot_20221004-085336_Instagram.jpg
Screenshot_20221004-085411_Instagram.jpg
Screenshot_20221004-085432_Instagram.jpg
20221004_085533.jpg

He does take some mean selfies though😎
20221004_095423.jpg

(face scribbled out as I don't think it appropriate / polite to show the face)
 
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PekingRoadHK

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I lost 50lbs in less than a year. Direct from my wardrobe without ironing for years, I passed this 2 suits (NFW and Fresco) to Ng sifu to make alterations when he got time, I asked him to take photos and post them to his webs.

This dugdale bro. NFW suit on my 200lbs body looks perfect, it was made by Ng sifu some years ago:


Just picked up my suits yesterday, I asked him to post these photos in his webs:
NFW.1.jpg
NFW.2.jpg


I got a new body, this suit looks 100% perfect on my 150lbs body, and it's like a new suit to me. Ng sifu said he could get me about 80% perfect before this alteration. I asked some expensive bespoke tailor shops before if they can make alteration if the suit is made by them and for my 50lbs weight loss case, they said they can get good result for 20lbs weight loss, but not for 50lbs. Now, I see good result from Ng sifu alteration, he did everything all by himself in his workshop. The funny part is it was made fully-lined, he turned it into half-lined.
 
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PekingRoadHK

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This Fresco mid grey suit was made by Ng sifu some years ago when I was 200lbs. Same case as the above NFW suit, I lost 50lbs and I asked Ng sifu to make alteration.

Direct from my wardrobe without ironing for years, I passed this 2 suits (NFW and Fresco) to Ng sifu to make alterations when he got time, I asked him to take photos and post them to his webs.


The result is even better than the above NFW, I feel better with Fresco. This Fresco suit looks 100% perfect on my 150lbs body, the fitting is so perfect. 50lbs loss weight case tested tailor skills!

My right and left shoulders are not perfectly equal, and this is making the length of my arms a little difference.
Fresco.1.jpg

Fresco.2.jpg


I always like plain blue and plain grey with white shirt to match with everything.
 
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PekingRoadHK

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Its great helping old Baotou sifu to make a buck to survive. They are over 70 or over 80 years old, they have been working for tailor shops for over 4/5/6 decades. Now, they have more choice to take more orders from direct customers.

They assume internet online things meaning a desk top and a mouse, that's why they always say they don't know the internet things. They are actually communicating by whatsapp and wechat (a kind of internet thing) everyday, and a few of them are operating their wechat pay or alibaba pay (a kind of FinTech). Some are practicing to reply simple English enquires by Google translate. I teach them to take photos with large aperture by their cell phones, and I see some of them have been uploading photos and videos to their webs once awhile.

From my observation, more and more old Baotou are now practicing to manage their online things to take more orders. A few are taking overseas orders from British and US brand names. They survive, and local consumers got more choices.
 
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Warrant_Buffet

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Its great helping old Baotou sifu to make a buck to survive. They are over 70 or over 80 years old, they have been working for tailor shops for over 4/5/6 decades. Now, they have more choice to take more orders from direct customers.

They assume internet online things meaning a desk top and a mouse, that's why they always say they don't know the internet things. They are actually communicating by whatsapp and wechat (a kind of internet thing) everyday, and a few of them are operating their wechat pay or alibaba pay (a kind of FinTech). Some are practicing to reply simple English enquires by Google translate. I teach them to take photos with large aperture by their cell phones, and I see some of them have been uploading photos and videos to their webs once awhile.

From my observation, more and more old Baotou are now practicing to manage their online things to take more orders. A few are taking overseas orders from British and US brand names. They survive, and local consumers got more choices.
Agreed. The backs look great too. Gotta help you show em:
Screenshot_20221011-181534_Chrome.jpg


And the milanese too. Comparing with Michael Browne's take:

Screenshot_20221011-181542_Chrome.jpg


Interestingly, Ng's phone had a smoke filter (he was kind enough to take it for me because it's his property and I couldn't take photos myself):

I'm glad sifus help make things great. I should recommend them to the top stores in HK and UK and help them make more money than they now do. They earn more, they're happier, they're encouraged to cut better, HKers help HKers who in turn help China. Win win win win win.
 

Warrant_Buffet

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Oh yeah a thing about milanese buttonholes: a retired Mirador said he once had clients that would go full-on Milanese for all the buttonholes of their jackets (charged more). He might be the only HK sifu I've known whose Chinese workshop makes functional Milanese buttonholes.

What happens with many other workshops is that the Milaneses are not functional. I'm guessing it's because
1. they tend to rip out much faster than traditional buttonholes; and
2. workshops therefore keep the Milanese closed for a more pleasing visual.

Maybe someone can go ask Ng for functional Milanese buttonholes. He'll find a way. Fung on 11/F makes suits with machine-stitched buttonholes BTW so don't bother.

If one is into boutonnieres, they may want to go with traditional buttonholes instead.

Extended reading: https://journal.styleforum.net/the-milanese-buttonhole-beautifully-unnecessary/

Butiknownth👉🏼👈🏼
 
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Warrant_Buffet

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Couple more things about HK baotous (some of whom are pro-China and against rebels like me) and their trusted workshops in China:
- Capable makers are often the unsung heroes behind great items because, as much as sifus can cut and basters and baste, it takes makers to execute baotous' orders (or clear up their mess)
- Workshops up north, from my very limited experience, tend to be more systematically run than their Guangzhou counterparts, with more resources and better quality control (resources as in machines for pressing shaping stitching and more. You name em). These things come with heftier bills too, of course. Case in point, I contacted a Suzhou workshop directly for an unstructured jacket with a one-piece back. I paid close to 350USD after a 10 or 12% discount. Meanwhile, sifus in HK charge about the same and of course have paid their workshops just a fraction of that amount. I'm not sure why workshops in these regions charge, presumably, much lower rates... Anyway, I *might* move on and get another jacket made by someone in Chengdu / Chongqing for 500USD, fully handmade. We'll see what's so different.
- Not all old sifus are equal, at least not seen to be so. Some remain hired by shops like Wx Chan and Gordon Y, and they're in their 70s like those in Mirador, cutting and sewing happily while sometimes training up younger folks in-house. They remain hired and I wonder why.
- One last thing (and this is a really difficult one): a well-made (styling being a completely different thing) jacket should look clean on the hanger, the mannequin, and the wearer himself. Not something that a lot of tailor shops can achieve. Sifus may; check if theirs do fulfill that expectation.
 

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