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Piobaire

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Why should government be involved in any contract between two willing parties?


I'll go back to libertopia now.
Noice!

I'm not against all government intervention. What if one of those parties in eight years old? Or demented? Or developmentally disabled? What if one party is a bad actor, i.e. knows Walter White and Jesse cooked meth in the basement?
 

brokencycle

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Noice!

I'm not against all government intervention. What if one of those parties in eight years old? Or demented? Or developmentally disabled? What if one party is a bad actor, i.e. knows Walter White and Jesse cooked meth in the basement?
Excluding ancaps, libertarians think minors or mentally disabled need additional protections.
 

Piobaire

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Excluding ancaps, libertarians think minors or mentally disabled need additional protections.
What about the bad actor scenario? Non-disclosure of material issues that would impact either valuation or usability would seem important aspect for government to get involved in.
 

brokencycle

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What about the bad actor scenario? Non-disclosure of material issues that would impact either valuation or usability would seem important aspect for government to get involved in.
Ask 10 libertarians, and you'll get 15 different answers.

Seriously though, some, like minarchists, would say fraud/dishonesty/bad actors should be dealt with individually through lawsuits. Others, like classical liberals, would say government should be involved in setting up guardrails to proactively protecting against fraud/bad actors. Then there's the continuum between those two points.
 

otc

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What about the bad actor scenario? Non-disclosure of material issues that would impact either valuation or usability would seem important aspect for government to get involved in.
I suppose you could probably get around that without prior government intervention (so long as you still had functional courts and enforcement).

You simply write all of your real estate contracts along the lines of "seller agrees that they have disclosed any of XYZ issues. If this is found not to be the case, the contract will be invalidated and all funds will be returned to the buyer along with a breakup fee of $X"

Is that the most efficient way to do it? Probably not. With the government creating laws around specific common issues, you probably are much better able to deal with them and it is harder for con artists to get around them.

Reminds me of a b-school case where some young guys got into a bad new venture with a fraudster business partner. Contractually they had lots of potential options...but the "correct" solution was to pay off the outstanding bank loans with their life savings and walk away from the business because the business partner was likely judgement proof and would happily tie them up in court for years and destroy their credit and reputation.
 

Piobaire

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But at last Oregon will be free of those stupid letters!
 

cross22

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Dealing with courts on private transactions is a crapshoot. It is really difficult to prove who did what, who said what, who should have done what, what is reasonable, etc. Also the courts are useless unless there are laws on which they can base their judgement on. IMO there is definitely a role for government to set guardrails against bad actors in private transactions.
 

Van Veen

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Between our realtor and a friend who just redid their house, I have definitively lost the same-color trim battle. People get a look of disgust on their faces when you even suggest anything other than white trim.

Also pretty sure I'm going to lose the crown molding battle ("it will show how uneven the ceiling is"), but at the very least I hope we can switch it out for something lower profile.

1623714235418.png


I did win the fireplace surround battle. The above friend suggested we do a herringbone marble she saw on Instagram. Basically this:

1623714605490.png


Kind of feel like that's a very West Elm/C&B aesthetic. Not really my thing. I think we are going to do a glazed brick surround kind of like this:

1623714760710.png


Hopefully with a thin black metal mantle. The chunky wood thing is another fad I want to avoid.
 

brokencycle

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Between our realtor and a friend who just redid their house, I have definitively lost the same-color trim battle. People get a look of disgust on their faces when you even suggest anything other than white trim.

Also pretty sure I'm going to lose the crown molding battle ("it will show how uneven the ceiling is"), but at the very least I hope we can switch it out for something lower profile.

View attachment 1624661

I did win the fireplace surround battle. The above friend suggested we do a herringbone marble she saw on Instagram. Basically this:

View attachment 1624663

Kind of feel like that's a very West Elm/C&B aesthetic. Not really my thing. I think we are going to do a glazed brick surround kind of like this:

View attachment 1624664

Hopefully with a thin black metal mantle. The chunky wood thing is another fad I want to avoid.
Crown molding, if applied correctly, hides how uneven the ceiling/walls are.
 

Van Veen

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Crown molding, if applied correctly, hides how uneven the ceiling/walls are.
Yeah, that's the argument. Though in all the redone bathrooms and kitchen, it's been removed, and IMO doesn't look so bad. You can also hide it a bit cutting in.
 

ValidusLA

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Always down for a good crown molding argument.

My 70's CA ranch, the old owners put on 6" baseboards and 11" crowns. Absurd in a low ceiling ranch home.

I'm currently redoing my giant front second living room into a new dining room and an entry way, as well as building a soffit to allow doors to split the public and private parts of the house.

Ripped off all the crowns and baseboards in this part of the house and am going crownless with 5" hand stained wood baseboards.

Will see if I like it as much in reality as in my minds eye and then move forward to rest of house.
 

Van Veen

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Always down for a good crown molding argument.

My 70's CA ranch, the old owners put on 6" baseboards and 11" crowns. Absurd in a low ceiling ranch home.

I'm currently redoing my giant front second living room into a new dining room and an entry way, as well as building a soffit to allow doors to split the public and private parts of the house.

Ripped off all the crowns and baseboards in this part of the house and am going crownless with 5" hand stained wood baseboards.

Will see if I like it as much in reality as in my minds eye and then move forward to rest of house.
I have 7" baseboards. Standard 8' ceilings. Well, they're really 6" baseboards with a separate trim piece on top. Looks like shit IMO. DIY friend says we can hide it with caulk. I still think it will look like shit considering in some places the trim is flush to the baseboard, and in others it projects out a bit, so it will still cast a shadow. (Crown is only 2-3", at least.)
 

ValidusLA

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I have 7" baseboards. Standard 8' ceilings. Well, they're really 6" baseboards with a separate trim piece on top. Looks like shit IMO. DIY friend says we can hide it with caulk. I still think it will look like shit considering in some places the trim is flush to the baseboard, and in others it projects out a bit, so it will still cast a shadow. (Crown is only 2-3", at least.)
Overdone white trim and crowns are like the hegemony of the scandinavian minimalist interior design movement. Safe, boring, everywhere.

Also, in the new world of home renovations. I am currently laughing at the fact that mahogany is cheaper than VG fir, and riftsawn oak is nearly the price of Walnut (and much more than cherry or mahogany).
 

Lizard23

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I dont particularly like crown molding, but unless you have top of the line skim coat work done and refinished as inevitable imperfections appear, its sort of necessary.
 

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