The high end Chinese Shoe Thread

[Zapasman]

I know for sure (have the same work in a bootie), but only if he could improve the sole stitching which is done by machine, his work would be outstanding for the price. I am not too picky, but a fudging on top of a terrible sloppy stitching makes things worse. Its very visible. He might train better his worker at this process or calibrate his machine. Even my cobbler does it better, lol.

 

[Roscoe the best]

I know for sure (have the same work in a bootie), but only if he could improve the sole stitching which is done by machine, his work would be outstanding for the price. I am not too picky, but a fudging on top of a terrible sloppy stitching makes things worse. Its very visible. He might train better his worker at this process or calibrate his machine. Even my cobbler does it better, lol.

The CROCKETT & JONES way of hiding the outsole stiches on the welt will also be a good thing to do.

 

[ijustknow]

Beautiful boots, but I do not understand how such a good maker uses so badly the rapid machine to attach the outsole. Then comes the fudging and the final work is a mess to me. Its a pity.

I think the fudge is not bad, but not matching the stitches.

 

[Zapasman]

They are not bad at all, but it is impossible to match any stitching at the tip (most difficult part to work). A larger sole stitching would avoid that difficulty.

 

[bernoulli]

Same.

I actually don't think it looks that bad. The fudging looks a little funny, but I would accept it at these prices.

 

[Zapasman]

So you jokers find it funny?

 

[JohnMRobie]

They are not bad at all, but it is impossible to match any stitching at the tip (most difficult part to work). A larger sole stitching would avoid that difficulty.
View attachment 1716149

I think I’ve written in this thread before about this. With the rise of what I guess can be described as YouTube shoe culture and review culture it seems like there’s an uptick in people shopping off a spec list. “What’s the SPI? Is there a fiddleback waist? closed channel stitching on the sole? A YouTube video told me that was one of the nuances of a high end shoe” Mainly as it pertains to things that largely serve an aesthetic purpose rather than functional.

People chase that 12 spi on the sole stitch to check the box.

The clearest example I can think of - I have two shoes. One has 10ish Spi, one has 12. Both have machine sewn soles. Which one is “higher end” based on that if I’m buying off a list?

In reality it isn’t something that anyone will see or notice, it won’t lead to a poor outcome wearing them.

At the price point, accessibility and speed I’ve got no problem sacrificing some messy stitching on some of the Xibao family of shoes. I’ve got a pair from them that are pretty much perfectly done and a pair that have some slightly messier stitching.

If I wanted perfection I’d pay for the upcharge for hand sewn soles or go to a maker where I’m going to pay more for that attention to detail. There are certainly ways to do it - whether it’s an extra couple hundred bucks from a different maker in China, an extra couple hundred euros in Italy or a multiple to go to ACME or a Japanese maker. If I want to stay at their price point I can sacrifice some accessibility and speed and go to Emil.

 

[bernoulli]

Same. I wager that if one is shown two identical shoes, one with a 10SPI and another with a 12SPI, people wouldn't be able to tell without getting a ruler. I have no idea of what SPI my Vass are, for instance, but their stitching looks no better or worse than my Slimshoes, who agreed to increase the SPI on my pairs from them as a courtesy (I appreciate the gesture now, as I did it then, but it is certainly not the reason to prefer their shoes over Vass or vice-versa).

I think I’ve written in this thread before about this. With the rise of what I guess can be described as YouTube shoe culture and review culture it seems like there’s an uptick in people shopping off a spec list. “What’s the SPI? Is there a fiddleback waist? closed channel stitching on the sole? A YouTube video told me that was one of the nuances of a high end shoe” Mainly as it pertains to things that largely serve an aesthetic purpose rather than functional.

People chase that 12 spi on the sole stitch to check the box.

The clearest example I can think of - I have two shoes. One has 10ish Spi, one has 12. Both have machine sewn soles. Which one is “higher end” based on that if I’m buying off a list? View attachment 1716295 View attachment 1716296

In reality it isn’t something that anyone will see or notice, it won’t lead to a poor outcome wearing them.

At the price point, accessibility and speed I’ve got no problem sacrificing some messy stitching on some of the Xibao family of shoes. I’ve got a pair from them that are pretty much perfectly done and a pair that have some slightly messier stitching.

If I wanted perfection I’d pay for the upcharge for hand sewn soles or go to a maker where I’m going to pay more for that attention to detail. There are certainly ways to do it - whether it’s an extra couple hundred bucks from a different maker in China, an extra couple hundred euros in Italy or a multiple to go to ACME or a Japanese maker. If I want to stay at their price point I can sacrifice some accessibility and speed and go to Emil.

 

[JohnMRobie]

Same. I wager that if one is shown two identical shoes, one with a 10SPI and another with a 12SPI, people wouldn't be able to tell without getting a ruler. I have no idea of what SPI my Vass are, for instance, but their stitching looks no better or worse than my Slimshoes, who agreed to increase the SPI on my pairs from them as a courtesy (I appreciate the gesture now, as I did it then, but it is certainly not the reason to prefer their shoes over Vass or vice-versa).

Yes it’s not something I really notice that much - Hell - I checked each of my pairs of Meccariello’s for how tidy the toe stitching was today before I wrote that post and only then realized a few of the various pairs have a different stitch density. I had no idea until I looked and it doesn’t make me like or dislike the other pairs any more or less.

That being said, I tend to prefer a higher density than Vass or Allen Edmonds use but there’s no practical reason for it.

 

[clee1982]

Yea Vass is low, but U and F are good last regardless (though U doesn’t fit so I guess we can forget about that)

i bought AM without buying Vass first just by chance so would not buy Vass now but had someone start from Vass think they would be happy too (especially given the recent ridiculous Vass sales)

 

[BColl_Has_Too_Many_Shoes]

Same. I wager that if one is shown two identical shoes, one with a 10SPI and another with a 12SPI, people wouldn't be able to tell without getting a ruler. I have no idea of what SPI my Vass are, for instance, but their stitching looks no better or worse than my Slimshoes, who agreed to increase the SPI on my pairs from them as a courtesy (I appreciate the gesture now, as I did it then, but it is certainly not the reason to prefer their shoes over Vass or vice-versa).

Yes it’s not something I really notice that much - Hell - I checked each of my pairs of Meccariello’s for how tidy the toe stitching was today before I wrote that post and only then realized a few of the various pairs have a different stitch density. I had no idea until I looked and it doesn’t make me like or dislike the other pairs any more or less.

That being said, I tend to prefer a higher density than Vass or Allen Edmonds use but there’s no practical reason for it.

I would say that SPI doesn't matter in it of itself. A beautiful last and pattern is much more appealing & important, and are characteristics that we can quickly identify. That said in combination with the last and pattern, a higher SPI subtly improves the finished product aesthetically. A shoe with a higher SPI (and again a beautiful last and pattern) looks cleaner and more refined. It looks much more formal.

Using the Vass example, the F last is one of the finest lasts around. Though considering it has a lower SPI, it always looks just a touch crude in comparison to what ACME produces (10-12 SPI more often than not). Obviously there are other factors such as the waist, heel, sole thickness that would affect the final appearance of the ACME shoe over the Vass one, but I believe the aspect of a higher SPI would tip the scales in ACME's favor.

To wrap up, a higher SPI, from what I've seen, just elevates an already beautiful last and pattern. Don't have the latter doesn't matter about the former.

 

[Roscoe the best]

I will keep my boots updated when I receive them let's see how is my first "handmade" shoe works, I only had goodyear welt shoes before. The price of OCT is somewhat around the prices of Crockett and Jones or Trickers, so I don't really expect they can be same quality as Edward Green or John Lobb, if they can be same quality as Alfred Sargent , then I will be absolutely happy.

 

[ijustknow]

They are not bad at all, but it is impossible to match any stitching at the tip (most difficult part to work). A larger sole stitching would avoid that difficulty.
View attachment 1716149

For this photo, it is bad, super bad, bad enough to claim a refund.....
Disclaimer, I am a very good friend with Oct Tenth owner.

 

[clee1982]

I think one buys EG for the whole package else on technical alone lots of guys are “better” without getting into the subjective stuff

though saying that I still would not pay EG px at retail…

 

[clee1982]

For this photo, it is bad, super bad, bad enough to claim a refund.....
Disclaimer, I am a very good friend with Oct Tenth owner.

Have you showed OT owner this picture, Wonder if OT has been expanding a lot lately?