• STYLE. COMMUNITY. GREAT CLOTHING.

    Bored of counting likes on social networks? At Styleforum, you’ll find rousing discussions that go beyond strings of emojis.

    Click Here to join Styleforum's thousands of style enthusiasts today!

The high end Chinese Shoe Thread

saurabh

Distinguished Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2014
Messages
2,162
Reaction score
7,767
They r offering JR soles now ?
on OT I would assume if you talk to Tom you can probably get JR too?
I had no chance through Tom of SoH.
That's strange, I thought he was the liaison for the brand outside of China
Tom mentioned 2 months back that Baker oak bark soles are available at a surcharge so for my next OT order I am definitely going for that and for reference the post is below.

 

jischwar

Distinguished Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2012
Messages
3,777
Reaction score
6,393
Tom mentioned 2 months back that Baker oak bark soles are available at a surcharge so for my next OT order I am definitely going for that and for reference the post is below.

Those are better than JR anyway. Thanks for posting!
 

Notch

Distinguished Member
Affiliate Vendor
Joined
Jul 27, 2010
Messages
2,782
Reaction score
6,429
Just saw this, and I wanted to mention that in my collaboration with Oct. Tenth, thus far we have never offered JR soles, and also stopped offering Baker oak soles because of the difficult logistics. Any customer is free to send in a pair of outsoles from JR or Baker, and they will use those. The supply of JR soles is simply too unreliable in China.

I'll enquire with the factory again on how we might start doing this as an option, but I have received great comments on the leather outsoles that we use now.
 

j ingevaldsson

Distinguished Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2011
Messages
2,314
Reaction score
3,667
Exactly my C&J handgrades, EG, G&G all use bakers so I like them better too.
Are C&J HG really using the regular oak bark tanned Baker soles? My experience was always that they wear out quicker than other shoes I have with Baker soles, and understand many others have the same experience. And have had mixed info from "official" C&J channels so I've never really been sure.
 

saurabh

Distinguished Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2014
Messages
2,162
Reaction score
7,767
Are C&J HG really using the regular oak bark tanned Baker soles? My experience was always that they wear out quicker than other shoes I have with Baker soles, and understand many others have the same experience. And have had mixed info from "official" C&J channels so I've never really been sure.
Not 100% sure and C&J NY store did say to me many years ago that it was using the bakers oak bark soles.
I also looked at the website and it mentions using the bark tanned soles. Not sure if this can also be another tannery than Bakers.
 

j ingevaldsson

Distinguished Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2011
Messages
2,314
Reaction score
3,667
Not 100% sure and C&J NY store did say to me many years ago that it was using the bakers oak bark soles.
I also looked at the website and it mentions using the bark tanned soles. Not sure if this can also be another tannery than Bakers.
Yeah they are oak bark tanned, but I'd thought from some other tannery or perhaps Baker but not standard spec. I'm not sure either though.
 

Zapasman

Distinguished Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2014
Messages
3,288
Reaction score
1,989
Are C&J HG really using the regular oak bark tanned Baker soles? My experience was always that they wear out quicker than other shoes I have with Baker soles, and understand many others have the same experience. And have had mixed info from "official" C&J channels so I've never really been sure.
The few HG pairs I have/had seems to be equal to my EG leather soles. I see no reason to buy oak barked tanned soles outside of UK having Baker tannery around.
 

j ingevaldsson

Distinguished Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2011
Messages
2,314
Reaction score
3,667
The few HG pairs I have/had seems to be equal to my EG leather soles. I see no reason to buy oak barked tanned soles outside of UK having Baker tannery around.
Yeah, and I've heard that experience from others as well, it's been both ways. Well I will make sure I remember to ask about it next time I'm in contact with someone from the factory, so I can get some piece in my mind 😊
 

bengal-stripe

Distinguished Member
Dubiously Honored
Joined
Mar 23, 2002
Messages
4,582
Reaction score
1,124
Not 100% sure and C&J NY store did say to me many years ago that it was using the bakers oak bark soles.


It doesn't say anywhere oak bark, just bark tanned leather, so it could well be chestnut bark which is the main tanning agent in Mediterranean countries. The use of Oak bark has become very rare, as far as I know Rendenbach does not use oak bark but acorns.

I do not think anyone should dismiss chestnut per se, it is probably more the care and time taken than the actual ingredients which account for the quality of the finished hides. The London shop "Lodger" (now defunct) did once a comparison between oak and chestnut as tanning agents and, if I remember correctly, chestnut did beat oak by a small margin. Garat&Fils is the premium French veg tannery. In their company logo they feature a stylized tree (more oak than chestnut) but on their website they state that they did change at some point from oak to chestnut.

Tanning, which in the past used locally harvested oak bark, has gradually adopted chestnut-bark extracts for pit tanning.
This type of tannin is best suited for sole leather and for high-quality vegetable-tanned products.

As far as I know, Bakers is too small a company with insufficient output, as to be the supplier for any large shoe manufacturer. Bakers is used by virtually every bespoke shoemaker in the UK, but the only manufacturer they supply is G&G. But of course, manufacturers do change their suppliers frequently for good (better quality, more reliable supply) as well as for bad reasons (cheaper, although of lesser quality). My information might be out of date.
 

jischwar

Distinguished Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2012
Messages
3,777
Reaction score
6,393
To add, CJ emailed me this am and said they won't disclose who makes their soles, but just that they assure me they "only use the best tanneries in UK and Europe". On a separate note, was discussing with another member here, do you all know which makes use veg tan insoles and linings and which use chrome tanned?
 

j ingevaldsson

Distinguished Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2011
Messages
2,314
Reaction score
3,667
It doesn't say anywhere oak bark, just bark tanned leather, so it could well be chestnut bark which is the main tanning agent in Mediterranean countries. The use of Oak bark has become very rare, as far as I know Rendenbach does not use oak bark but acorns.

I do not think anyone should dismiss chestnut per se, it is probably more the care and time taken than the actual ingredients which account for the quality of the finished hides. The London shop "Lodger" (now defunct) did once a comparison between oak and chestnut as tanning agents and, if I remember correctly, chestnut did beat oak by a small margin. Garat&Fils is the premium French veg tannery. In their company logo they feature a stylized tree (more oak than chestnut) but on their website they state that they did change at some point from oak to chestnut.




As far as I know, Bakers is too small a company with insufficient output, as to be the supplier for any large shoe manufacturer. Bakers is used by virtually every bespoke shoemaker in the UK, but the only manufacturer they supply is G&G. But of course, manufacturers do change their suppliers frequently for good (better quality, more reliable supply) as well as for bad reasons (cheaper, although of lesser quality). My information might be out of date.
Good post! Yeah, come to think about it, doesn't EG use JR soles?

Like you say if it's chestnut, oak bark or acorn tanned doesn't matter that much, it's the process and amount of time in the pits that matters the most here I believe. Garat's soles that you mentioned (which are chestnut tanned yes) are excellent, and know many makers love them since you can specify the fat percentage, making them a pleasure to work with. And Weston's chestnut tanned soles are amazing. But you can chestnut tan soles for two-three months as well and they are not at all the same quality, so it's not a terminology working to determine things here.

On the topic, my G&G bespoke chukkas have Baker sole on one shoe and Garat on the other. Doing real life testing on endurance 😊
 

Styleforum is proudly sponsored by

Featured Sponsor

Summer Loafers: With or Without Socks?

  • With socks

  • No socks


Results are only viewable after voting.

Related Threads

Forum statistics

Threads
459,894
Messages
9,978,329
Members
207,795
Latest member
Taregam
Top