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The great suit style is of Germany my friends

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Roland Loden of Germany, Nov 20, 2007.

  1. epa

    epa Senior member

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    I guess you weren't there during the World Cup.
    LOL
    Actually, I think that the World Cup was seen by many as some kind of turnpoint, when Germans started to feel that they could be patriots again, without feeling guilty about what the generation before them had done in the 40s.
    By the way, this habit of always bringing up the nazis when discussing German clothing is a bit tiring. What would U.S. citizens think if Europeans brought up, for example, Pinochet or the Vietnam war (or some even more recent questionable issues) every time someone started a thread to discuss, for example, Ralph Lauren?
    The "Tracht" discussed above is, in my opinion, a kind of traditional clothing that really looks great also for everyday wear, in the right environment, including "modern" cities like Munich.
    Obviously, it may not "travel" that well. Just like, for example, cowboy boots.
    By the way, southern Germany is not only cows and beer. It is also BMW, Porsche, Mercedes...
     
  2. stilmacher

    stilmacher Senior member

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    People often confuse guilt with responsibility. I don't feel guilty and every German my age who does should go and see someone. What I do feel is a sense of historic responsibility. This responsibility is the result of a very concrete awareness of the history of our country. This does not mean that I am not a patriot. I just think that a patriot also has to be commited to constant scepticism and criticism. Patriotism is different to nationalism. In todays united Europe we have less and less room and use for nationalism.

    Back to the dress: As I said, there is nothing wrong with living and nurturing your local culture. However, for a northern German a Tracht is NOT local culture but a clear expression of a reactionary (or worse) state of mind. It is also a fact that a vast majority of people wear Tracht as an expression of their conservative lifetsyle.
     
  3. epa

    epa Senior member

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    People often confuse guilt with responsibility. I don't feel guilty and every German my age who does should go and see someone. What I do feel is a sense of historic responsibility. This responsibility is the result of a very concrete awareness of the history of our country. This does not mean that I am not a patriot. I just think that a patriot also has to be commited to constant scepticism and criticism. Patriotism is different to nationalism. In todays united Europe we have less and less room and use for nationalism.

    Back to the dress: As I said, there is nothing wrong with living and nurturing your local culture. However, for a northern German a Tracht is NOT local culture but a clear expression of a reactionary (or worse) state of mind. It is also a fact that a vast majority of people wear Tracht as an expression of their conservative lifetsyle.



    Unfortunately, in Spain we have more and more of nationalism, basically based an invented history and exagerated "peculiarities" of certain regions. For an outsider (a non-Spaniard), this kind of nationalism really appears ridiculous, and one would feel inclined to laugh if it wasn't for the fact that some people actually get killed and/or have their properties destroyed in the name of this nationalism.

    I agree with the difference between guilt and responsability.

    I also agree that a lot of people probably wear a Tracht as an expression of a conservative state of mind. Nothing wrong with that, IMO. To be conservative is far from being a fascist (actually, I have the feeling that the conservative parties in Germany have a much more "social" mind than the conservative party in Spain). Also, I personally think that it is a shame when "leftish" people feel that they have to dress like punks to show that they are not conservative (especially in view of the fact that sometimes dressing as a punk can be as expensive as dressing as a gentleman).
     
  4. lasbar

    lasbar Senior member

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    Epa,i do speak spanish and my family is from the Pyrenees and i'm fully aware of the Basque and Catalan question...

    There are some very deep roots to these problems coming from the Franco era when regionalism and local cultures were smashed up by the Franco regime...

    I did notice some tensions especially with the Basques....I do sometimes wind-up some drivers telling them i'm a French Basque and it is working....

    Nationalism is rarely something i do appreciate...I do feel uncomfortable in the States with flags everywhere ....Why? I don't know but the states do need ,with its own massive melting-polt to bring people together ,around the flag more than other older countries where people have a long common history to refer to...
     
  5. Roland Loden of Germany

    Roland Loden of Germany Senior member

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    I would like for the Trachtenanzug to be worn and appreciated by all nationalities with only the conditiion they can find one of the qualitity observed here. My good friend Gökhan who resides in München is of Turkish origin and often wears very fine examples without any difficulty.
     
  6. fritzl

    fritzl Senior member

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    I believe it comes from the Traunsee area of Austria. Probably member "˜fritzl' can give more information, as it is his neck of the woods (or is it the lakes?).

    I think it comes from Salzburg. I like it. Bought a "Jägerleinen" today.

    Btw, It is woods and lakes.
     
  7. epa

    epa Senior member

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    Epa,i do speak spanish and my family is from the Pyrenees and i'm fully aware of the Basque and Catalan question...

    There are some very deep roots to these problems coming from the Franco era when regionalism and local cultures were smashed up by the Franco regime...

    I did notice some tensions especially with the Basques....I do sometimes wind-up some drivers telling them i'm a French Basque and it is working....


    Frankly speaking, there may be deep roots, but many of the youngsters making up todays violent nationalistic movements were not even born during the Franco era, and when you hear their arguments...
    For ****s sake, Franco died in the 70s! (And many of the persons they have killed were people who did a lot more against Franco than what they -or their parents- ever made!)
    Violent nationalistic movements just cannot be justified in a democracy.
     
  8. tiecollector

    tiecollector Senior member

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    Frankly speaking, there may be deep roots, but many of the youngsters making up todays violent nationalistic movements were not even born during the Franco era, and when you hear their arguments...
    For ****s sake, Franco died in the 70s! (And many of the persons they have killed were people who did a lot more against Franco than what they -or their parents- ever made!)
    Violent nationalistic movements just cannot be justified in a democracy.


    I'm down to take it to the streets anti-hippie style in US of A. Is this turning into a CE thread?
     
  9. Degendorff

    Degendorff Senior member

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    However, for a northern German a Tracht is NOT local culture but a clear expression of a reactionary (or worse) state of mind.

    I am from Hamburg and have to disagree. The father of a good friend of mine is a confirmed social democrat and wears a Janker (similar to fritzl's) on a daily basis. However, he has an affinity to Southern Germany and Austria. I think that only in some few cases there is a political reason for wearing the tracht or a part of it as a sportscoat.
    Would you say that a "Lodenmantel" (a coat made of loden) is a political statement, too? Some of my fellow students wear them and are as left wing as left wing gets.
     
  10. epa

    epa Senior member

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    I am from Hamburg and have to disagree. The father of a good friend of mine is a confirmed social democrat and wears a Janker (similar to fritzl's) on a daily basis. However, he has an affinity to Southern Germany and Austria. I think that only in some few cases there is a political reason for wearing the tracht or a part of it as a sportscoat.
    Would you say that a "Lodenmantel" (a coat made of loden) is a political statement, too? Some of my fellow students wear them and are as left wing as left wing gets.


    My wife is far more leftist than I and she has expressly stated that she does not want me to wear a Lodenmantel as she does not like them, and I am sure that it has more with politics to do than with esthetics. It seems that Lodenmänel are strongly associated with very right wing people here in Spain. But I may be wrong.
     
  11. Bob Loblaw

    Bob Loblaw Senior member

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  12. lasbar

    lasbar Senior member

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    I do think that people or countries who did not suffered under a real dictatorship,left or right side of the political spectrum,do have problems to understand certain historical and cultural sensitivities ...

    Wearing a Nazi armband will not bring the same reactions in Israel,Germany,Poland ,USA or Russia...

    Being a right-winger or a left-winger in the USA or anywhere else is far from living under Franco,Pinochet or the Stasi watchful eyes...
    To those who are using provocation and using fashion political symbols ,you do have to be ready to face the reactions...
     
  13. RJman

    RJman Senior member Dubiously Honored

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  14. j

    j Senior member Admin

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    Ist das Deutsch für Rickrollen?
     
  15. underwearer

    underwearer Senior member

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    Why does everything from Germany have to be, 'The Best', or 'The Purest'? Why can't it just be a nice style of suit? Does that suit have to rule the World?
     
  16. lasbar

    lasbar Senior member

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    The main problem with ruling the world,it has been an obssesion with so many different cultures for so many centuries...
     
  17. imageWIS

    imageWIS Senior member

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    In Germany, if you were to hang the German flag on your front porch, your neighbors would be weirded out.


    Any yet they had no problem hanging the "˜interim' flag in the early 30's to mid 40's...

    Jon.
     
  18. imageWIS

    imageWIS Senior member

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    Ist das Deutsch für Rickrollen?

    [​IMG]

    Jon.
     
  19. SoCal2NYC

    SoCal2NYC Senior member

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    [​IMG]


    Not even a Glashutte or Lange could save that.
     
  20. mumbojumbo

    mumbojumbo Senior member

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    Wearing a Nazi armband will not bring the same reactions in Israel,Germany,Poland ,USA or Russia...
    Yes, in germany you would be arrested (and imprisoned) immediately (see german StGB §86, §130).
    I'm actually pretty sure you could find a grey Hugo Boss suit somewhere in germany.
    E.g. in Ohio you can find a 'grey Hugo Boss suit' too (google translated http://translate.google.com/translat...0605143007.php).
     

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