The Definitive MANBAG Thread Part I: 2009-2014

[Desi]

...40% is like standard retail employee discount. Unless you work at H&M (20%)

 

[dmash]



...40% is like standard retail employee discount. Unless you work at H&M (20%)

That would make most H&M things practically free though

 

[rach2jlc]



Coach is a reasonable buy on markdown; I believe the employee discount is 40%. Some people look down their noses at Coach (it's not the most cuting-edge or prestigious brand), but the hand on most of their leathers is nice and the quality is generally excellent.

That vachetta leather messenger is definitely dyed. It won't be as vulnerable as natural vachetta, though I wouldn't be surprised if those brown colors had a propensity to pick up marks and stains. To be clear, this won't "ruin" the bag, but if you're hard on things consider passing on this material, or at least getting it in black. I'm sure Coach offers thicker, more heavily treated leathers, but they won't have the same feel.

This is good advice. I've been anti-coach for a LONG time, but their past few men's collections have been quite decent and I was surprised. As well, with the almost criminal rise in prices from most of the major brands (with NO appreciation in quality... in fact, often depreciation... you are hard pressed to get much of ANYTHING from Prada, Gucci, Dior, for less than $1000, and even at that price level it's mostly entry-level junk... you'll be at least $2500+ to get at the stuff worth even holding in your hands), it is getting harder and harder to find in the USA a $400-600 option for decent, well styled bags with sleek, euro-ish styling and decent quality. Obviously, there is Filson/saddleback/etc., but I find these to have almost no refinement, though obviously they are versatile and well made.

Another decent option in the same league is Furla Uomo; they have a store in NYC and during markdown are quite reasonable. they often take styling cues from the major bags of the season, but are much nicer in quality and style than "fast fashion" like Zara or H*M.

If I could choose, I'd pick Furla Uomo over Coach, given the simplicity of styling and the slightly better quality of manufacture... especially at markdown (generally they drop 40%-60% off during sales.)

Japan is so far ahead of us in terms of realizing the market potential for NICE, well made $400-600 bags. We still have $150 Targus garbage and then $1500 Gucci in the USA. In Japan, there are literally hundreds of options at the mid price point of bags that have shocked me with how well made, well designed, and functional they are. I don't mind paying $1000 for a bag if it is really a $1000 bag. BUt, I don't want to pay $1000 for a $200 bag. I'd rather get a $400 bag in Japan that is a $400 bag.

Obviously, this goes back to the old "brand markup" story, but I never noticed or felt the level of disgust for it until recently, when I believe it's become egregious/obscene. 20-30% increases in price for the same items year in and year just doesn't hold up forever.

(ex: I purchased a Damier Bastille messenger from LV in late 2003 (October or November). It was $840 and had a full leather strap. The current version is $1560 and has a textile strap.) All brands have followed suit, though LV/Chanel are the worst. The damier bag, I felt, was worth $840 at the time, given its quality, its durability, and at the time Damier wasn't as ubiquitous as it was now.

The bag simply isn't worth, nor can in any way be justified, at $1560. It makes no sense and seems almost stupid at that price.

 

[rach2jlc]

Sorry for two long posts!

As to the above, my personal belief (and it's not really a belief, but observable in most major brand strategies of the past 3-4 years) is that places like LV and Gucci have basically given up on the US/Europe market and so are pricing themselves mostly in relation to emerging markets where people have so much money that they don't care about cost-to-quality ratio in ANY way... China, Russia, middle east, etc.

I simply don't think most of LV's historical client in the US or Europe will be "tricked" by a $1560 canvas Damier bag. They just won't buy it. Obviously, some will continue to buy the runway and upper level bags (which are still quite lovely from all brands, even Prada and Gucci.) but I can't see that a knowledgable considerate buyer understands the "luxury" of $1500 canvas and coated leather trim.

Chinese buyers, for example, couldn't care less if the bag costs $800 or $8000; they've got so much money that the ones who want it will buy it. As such, it's a fairly smart strategy to price that $800 Damier messenger at $1560. It will be purchased... but not by an American or European customer.

I use myself as an example, obviously, but I SHOULD (I would think) be LV or whoever's target demographic. I'm NOT, and they don't really want me as a customer... meaning somebody knowledgeable about their products, who values quality over brand, and who typically bought their products because they were guarantors of that quality and worth the price.

they've basically thumbed their noses at me as a customer, in my opinion. Temporarily, I think this is a smart move by them as they can make shorterm profits, but I simply don't think it's sustainable over time as a strategy. Obviously, LV has laughed all the way to the bank at me with places like Japan (which continue to pay 30% surpluses on LV products over anywhere else in the world even 20 years later), but I don't think this strategy will hold up all over.

Maybe it will; I dunno. All I'm saying is that I won't take part in it, and I won't waste my money on it... and with the free market providing suitable replacements, I think some of these brands will be surprised to see their "clout" dissolved. Prada and Gucci are facing this now...

 

[colabear]

thank you for an insightful post.

what I also think is lost with products by LV and Gucci is the special exclusivity factor that comes from the history and the heritage of the brand because it's over exposed and copied. from someone who knows good quality and design, you always search for something unique and new that's why MJ always comes up with new "fashion bags" for LV each season. the prices of these bags are so high because you are paying for the premium of new design and style, but is it worth it? after a season or two the style of these "fashion bags" become less relevant because there are newer styles.

another thing I noticed particularly from marc jacobs collection bags is the leather quality is different from a decade ago yet the price has even went up. this new men's bag from Marc Jacobs spring 2012 collection is nice but is it worth the price at around $1500? If you are a die hard MJ fan who knows the history and heritage of the brand, then yes. If you are not familiar with MJ and who doesn't? you might have to think it twice.

I

 

[DesignerValet]



another thing I noticed particularly from marc jacobs collection bags is the leather quality is different from a decade ago yet the price has even went up. this new men's bag from Marc Jacobs spring 2012 collection is nice but is it worth the price at around $1500? If you are a die hard MJ fan who knows the history and heritage of the brand, then yes. If you are not familiar with MJ and who doesn't? you might have to think it twice.

I

The bigger problem with a $1,500 Marc Jacobs bag is that the brand's cachet is already threadbare. Between the $5 tchotkes, underwhelming bridge line, and always-70%-off main line, the brand has little to offer against trendier competitors.

 

[rach2jlc]



The bigger problem with a $1,500 Marc Jacobs bag is that the brand's cachet is already threadbare. Between the $5 tchotkes, underwhelming bridge line, and always-70%-off main line, the brand has little to offer against trendier competitors.

+1. I've always felt that MJ's men's line had a tough time finding a niche. From afar, it looked like expensive GAP, was hard to find, and lacked the "zest" of the women's line and (as you said) trendier competition. It just felt like an afterthought, the red-headed stepchild to the women's line which was so neat.

Then MJ did himself in by saying things like, "I don't like menswear and don't even look at my own line and leave others to do it," basically saying exactly what customers felt... "you're just an afterthought because MJ is a brand and brands have men's lines."

But, then, seeing it in person, often it was really outstanding stuff that whoever he had working it... did well. Well made (until recently made by Gibo), beautiful fabrics, and a fit that was infinitely better than it looked on a hanger. I used to be very anti-MJ, and then I tried on a pair of his classic carpenter pants and they were perhaps the best pair of casual pants I've ever had. I now have three pairs of the same pants in different colors.

BUT, it took far too much to get me to try them on, for all the reasons you mentioned above. Seeing them on a hanger, I was like, "Why would I ever spend $400 for cotton carpenter pants?" BUT, then giving them a try, great cotton, lampo or riri hardware fiocchi snaps, great cut, etc. luckily, as you said, I was able to get them at drastic discount, so they were about the same price I'd have paid for GAP or J crew at retail.

Same with his bags; many of the mainline ones are really great, or WERE until recently. I haven't seen them up close in a few years (I think the last of anything I got was probably back in 07 or so.)

Like Michael Kors, I just think the men's lines have been largely afterthoughts with no real presence, but unlike Kors (which often is poorly made garbage), the MJ stuff often had some really nice pieces. If they've lost that attention to detail, there is absolutely nothing to recommend in it.

 

[DesignerValet]

Don't get me wrong; the MJ men's line has it's merits, and makes good basics (almost bought a color-block peacoat last fall). I have a tee with a giant silkscreened apple on it (purchased from erstwhile Chicago retailer Jake for 75% off) that is of exceptional quality and made with great fabric. Problem is, there's never a theme, and the line doens't create or even really follow trends; no editor or online blogger is going to swoon about MJ the way they do about Givenchy or Rick Owens.

Michael Kors always cracks me up with their ads; private planes, limos, and red carpets, when their main consumer is a surbubanite who also shops at Macy's and J. Crew.

 

[rach2jlc]



. Problem is, there's never a theme, and the line doens't create or even really follow trends; no editor or online blogger is going to swoon about MJ the way they do about Givenchy or Rick Owens.

This is really an outstanding point. I remember back on fashion spot years ago we talked about why some brands that made nice stuff otherwise didn't have more presence. Costume National is another that I think falls into this category. I NEVER think of them in the same way I'd think of its main competitors, and also (like MJ) I'd never think of paying full price. But, like MJ, I find myself having a number of individual pieces from them, though not anything that "makes" the outfit.

It's sort of... mod... goth... ninja... black... but not really. And sometimes the fabrics and cuts are simply unwearable. So, like you said about MJ, with CN also there really isn't a theme that carries over season to season that makes it desirable in and of itself.

LV menswear is the same, but with a name like LV it doesn't really matter and people want it. Every season LV has a "theme," for sure... but it's not like a thread that binds them together. I see Lanvin (or givenchy, as you said) and its immediately clear. Same with Hedi's Dior seasons. More so with Yohji and Ann D. Even when they do something completely different, it's still recognizable.

that's what I liked about the old Jil/Helmut seasons back a decade or more ago... it was basic, it was plain, but it was still recognizable/unique and not just a $400 cashmere tshirt.

 

[DesignerValet]

From the annals of eBay:

Vintage "Givenchy Gentleman" briefcase



A very tasteful Versace Sport polyurethane fanny pack (with iPod holder!!!)


Finally, a leopard print, ponyskin duffle with studded hardware from Dolce & Gabbana. Yes, it's a men's bag

 

[brad-t]

do want that D&G bag. how much

 

[Hkstyles]

can anyone recommend a bag that looks similar to this: Sorry for the dark pictures, couldn't find a better shot at the backpack...






EDIT:

I found a few bags that look similar, and I want your opinions on them!

http://www.chapmanbags.com/ChapmanBagsSite/pages/category/category.asp?ctgry=Rucksacks&cookie_test=1

http://www.barbourbymail.co.uk/Barbour-Beacon-Rucksack.html

 

[oldSFer]

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[oldSFer]

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[Medwed]

Fossil Max Duffel
http://www.fossil.com/en_US/shop/me...0||p_weight|0&pn=c&rec=3&imagePath=MBG1312201