The crazy thing about rap

[MrG]

Originally Posted by MetroStyles

I'm not going to argue with you. Add country singers to the list of rappers/pop singers.

The primary contrast is with actual rock bands. Let's not get cute with exceptions.

I really wasn't trying to argue with you, dude, and I wasn't trying to cherry pick to find rare exceptions, country just came to mind first. I sincerely didn't see why you viewed the band/beats thing as so dissimilar.

Regardless, in the name of not fighting with a poster I like, I can deal with the country concession. I've always thought that country and rap are two sides of the same coin, so it makes sense that they'd be similar in this regard as well.

 

[MetroStyles]

Originally Posted by MrG

I really wasn't trying to argue with you, dude, and I wasn't trying to cherry pick to find rare exceptions, country just came to mind first. I sincerely didn't see why you viewed the band/beats thing as so dissimilar.

Regardless, in the name of not fighting with a poster I like, I can deal with the country concession. I've always thought that country and rap are two sides of the same coin, so it makes sense that they'd be similar in this regard as well.

I was also gonna say "who cares, country sucks" but then I realized Johnny Cash did the same thing.

 

[dula14]

IMO, today's rap is 90% garbage. It's getting harder and harder to distinguish one artist from another nowadays. I read an article a couple of years ago talking about the death of hip-hop. I don't think hip-hop will ever completely die off, but I can definitely see it on life-support if some of these young cats can't step up their game.

 

[oman]

this is why i like Nas. yes, his beats are mediocre at best, but it allows his lyricism to sparkle like the gem that it is

 

[Fuuma]

Yeah, no other genre is about the beat, look at those amazing lyrics...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQN6h...eature=related

 

[sunror]

not convinced. you could try ranking hit rap songs on lyrics/both/beat as key to success and see what you get

where does something like that fabulous song with 'put it in the bag' as lyrics fall? the lyrics are atrocious but they're why the song is popular, more so than the beat. same would go for that milkshake song several years ago

 

[amd123]

People in here need to check out Mobb Deep, Arsonists, Eearly Wutang stuff. The beats are very dark/bleak/8-16bit/grimey/distorted/lofi stuff, very gritty but insanely good

 

[imschatz]

I disagree .. A rap song's longevity is dependent as much on the rap as on the beat. Example: MIMS - this is why I'm hot .. while having some commercial success .. where is MIMS these days? Counterexample you provided: Dre/TuPac - California Love One is still a legendary rap .. the other .. well, who didn't know MIMS would be last weeks garbage 2 days after releasing the album? California Love is such a recognizable song from it's beat .. yes .. but the fact the lyrics don't take away from the beat is what makes that song so popular.

 

[J.T. Thunderbird]

If you're yearning for a nice marriage between lyrics & beats, the Clipse (especially their latest album) are your friend.

sig check.....

 

[tomgirl]

Public Enemy's "fight the power" is probably one of the best rap songs ever, and I think it's more about the lyrics than the beat.

 

[SField]

Originally Posted by MrG

Replace "beats" with "band" and you can make the same statement about any genre. If you view the rapper as the lead singer and the beats as the rest of the band, rap doesn't seem quite so unique.

Likewise, producers are incredibly important in other genres. Look at Ross Robinson and Nu Metal, for example, or the changes to Metallica's sound after they started working with Bob Rock.

This isn't comparable at all.

A lot of rappers will write a song in their head or on paper, and only then find a beat to put it to. Sometimes they will work with a producer, but quite often the idea for the song's content and the music are done entirely separately. This is a problem I have as far as calling a lot of rappers musicians, since musically a lot of them had absolutely nothing to do with it.

Jay Z used to like to get great beats, then he'd freestyle or write based off the music, but that isn't too common.

At least in a band, there's a sort of cohesive unit there, whereas in rapping and production, the producer is usually just some hired gun. Sometimes it's a random submission off a demo tape that the raper's label was sent.

 

[SField]

Originally Posted by MetroStyles

In rap (and in radio pop), the artist that sings/raps gets most of the fame, while someone else is writing/producing the beat. This is the disconnect. It is particularly obvious and non-meaningful for bad pop, because hey, we all knew these people had no talent in the first place, especially in the age of rampant auto-tune. It is less obvious with rappers because it isn't their "mad singing chops" that they are famous for but theoretically they are famous for their flow/rhymes. But in reality, this has almost nothing to do with success as long as they pass a certain bar of not sucking.

+1

I think that rap, more than anything, is one of the types of music in which success relies LEAST on the artist's actual abilities. Most pop stars can at least dance and some can even sing somewhat... I was a huge rap fan and got to see a lot of stuff behind the scenes in the 90s... and the most disappointing thing a rap fan can ever see is a live concert of 90% of even the greatest "artists". You almost wish they were lip synching. And trust me, a lot of them sound very bad in the studio as well on the raw track before the voice multitracking and mastering.

 

[Riio]

Originally Posted by SField

+1

I think that rap, more than anything, is one of the types of music in which success relies LEAST on the artist's actual abilities. Most pop stars can at least dance and some can even sing somewhat... I was a huge rap fan and got to see a lot of stuff behind the scenes in the 90s... and the most disappointing thing a rap fan can ever see is a live concert of 90% of even the greatest "artists". You almost wish they were lip synching. And trust me, a lot of them sound very bad in the studio as well on the raw track before the voice multitracking and mastering.

it's almost as if rapping well is hard...

 

[boogaboogabooga]

Originally Posted by MetroStyles

80% of a record's commercial success is about the production/beat, and has nothing to do with the rapper.

I would say 90% of a records commercial success if how powerful the artists label is and how willing the label is to spend money to promote the artist. Accessibility takes precedence, sure, but there are a zillion catchy singles floating around at any given time and thats not even considering how insane the mix tape thing has become due to the internet and people like 50 Cent or Lil Wayne. The success of the majority of highly visible, lucrative, and profitable artists is more closely tied to how well they were marketed and invested in by their benefactors

 

[boogaboogabooga]

Originally Posted by tomgirl

Public Enemy's "fight the power" is probably one of the best rap songs ever, and I think it's more about the lyrics than the beat.
1st, I love your avatar. Who is that? 2nd, I respectfully disagree. First, the drum beat, if I'm not mistaken is the once ubiquitous (especially in Public Enemy's or Hank Shocklee's oeuvre) break from "Funky Drummer" by James Brown created by Clyde Stubblefield. It is an undeniable rhythmic figure and adheres to the criterion that all great break beats must follow which is the ability of being interesting on it's own in a funk songs break down along with it's subsequent build up. In short, it's catchy. Especially when the beginning of each measure is marked with a foreboding/super cool sounding chime thingamajig.