The CM Graveyard: First Sartoria Partenopea... next J. Crew?

[LA Guy]

Yeah there are some clients super loyal as well as some to like Bloomingdales too. Windows are nicely done and fun in general. I do agree that their online is very well done. And I like it more than like Bloomies. For something pricier I'd rather see it in store but still.

Their returns are just....jeez. Too customer friendly? A Nordstrom here in Mass, a lady returned about 30 grand plus worth of merch with no tags or receipts and worn. I believe in a span of 2 days?

These are the cases that get "regular" customers interested in Nordstrom - that even such an unreasonable customer is accomodated gives confidence that you will be trreated fairly, and well.

 

[clee1982]

All the SA I deal with have been good, they just don't add value (or very rarely). I rarely buy unless I'm 99.9% sure I'm going to keep it, so while good return policy is nice, it doesn't affect me as much.

That Nordstrom return policies sounds nuts, I think at certain point RL (mansion, not Macy) have this kind of allowance (somewhat relationship dependent) though they cut back (which makes sense to me).

 

[clee1982]

Now if someone can deliver to my home let me try on for 15 minutes before they head out or pick up within one hour window any time at my home for return then I'll buy with them..., very hard to make that kind service profitable if you ask me...

 

[Caustic Man]

That's an interesting idea. It might not be as difficult as you think with drone delivery becoming a possibility. You would think that Amazon would be at the forefront of whatever technology you would need to make that happen, but I don't know where they are with it. What would be really interesting to me is if I could buy something, get several sizes to try on, and send back whatever ones I don't want. That's a massive risk for the seller, I know, but in a perfect world where everyone was honest, that would be great. Mott & Bow denim actually does that if I'm not mistaken, but they are the only ones I know of who do.

 

[clee1982]

All the guys I bought from usually have decent return policies, it's just me being lazy to actually drop somewhere (or find a box or print return label, though most come with return label these days). I basically want same in store experience as comfort at home (i.e. Try on multiple size, can instantly give them back just like put back on the hangers)

 

[ChiliPalmer]

The issue isn't so much a decrease in demand, as a decrease in the demand at a sustainable pricepoint. The internet creates a relentless drive towards discounts that not too many retailers have figured out how to beat yet.

Ralph Lauren sends sale e-mails every day. EVERY DAY. Sometimes multiple times in a day. And to account for all the discounting, the prices are artificially high.

Part of the answer to the problem LA Guy points out is to limit output and create scarcity. No need to discount inventory you don't have. But stakeholders prevent Ralph Lauren and Neiman Marcus from doing this. Shareholders in the case of Ralph Lauren, limited partners in the case of Neiman Marcus. Those stakeholders want revenue growth. So that's what they pursue. And it's always at the expense of quality.

The best thing Ralph Lauren could do for his company is take it private.

 

[clee1982]

RL was never about Polo/RLPL/RLBL/RRL, thought the bread and butter was the polo shirt and all the Macy places. I mean you're looking at cutting RL to > 1/20 of its current size?

Very few brand can play being scarce, I mean if RLPL is gone, and I'm in same budget range for suit then I still got plenty of options.

 

[LA Guy]

RL was never about Polo/RLPL/RLBL/RRL, thought the bread and butter was the polo shirt and all the Macy places. I mean you're looking at cutting RL to > 1/20 of its current size?

Very few brand can play being scarce, I mean if RLPL is gone, and I'm in same budget range for suit then I still got plenty of options.

if you free yourself from seasonal cycles, you can have high turnover without decreasing size. Zara wrote the book on this. Essentially you have to speed up the consumption cycle.

 

[clee1982]

yea, but don't think that's creating scarcity. If someone can do fast fashion speed (Zara) but high quality and high output, can that someone charge high price?

 

[Caustic Man]

What the devil do we mean by "quality" anyway?

 

[LA Guy]

That's an interesting idea. It might not be as difficult as you think with drone delivery becoming a possibility. You would think that Amazon would be at the forefront of whatever technology you would need to make that happen, but I don't know where they are with it. What would be really interesting to me is if I could buy something, get several sizes to try on, and send back whatever ones I don't want. That's a massive risk for the seller, I know, but in a perfect world where everyone was honest, that would be great. Mott & Bow denim actually does that if I'm not mistaken, but they are the only ones I know of who do.

They are trying to do the opposite of this. They want people to get the fit right, or at least, right enough to want to keep, on the first try. The average return on shoes to Zappos, which Amazon owns, is 30%. However, the average most loyal customers have a return closer to 50%, and it's exactly this "try on" phenomenon that you are talking about. The overhead for such a high return rate squeezes the margins very hard. This is the reason that they bought Shoefitr, to try to get down those return rates.

 

[clee1982]

well, originally I thought the comparable sizing was a good idea (i.e. you're jcrew small/RL extra small in y/z fit etc.), but that never seems to truly take off, and not sure if help reduce the return rate. In the earlier days I did buy two for trying sizing, but now I mostly have sizing nailed down and it's simply I take a look and then don't think I like it as much vs. the picture.

 

[clee1982]

What the devil do we mean by "quality" anyway?

no idea, but when you see it, it's fairly obvious. I.e. if we don't argue on true definition I can say I'm happy enough with RL quality, but definitely not happy with Zara quality (and lots of in between, like some jcrew is ok some are not)

 

[LA Guy]

yea, but don't think that's creating scarcity. If someone can do fast fashion speed (Zara) but high quality and high output, can that someone charge high price?

The answer is "we don't know", but we can take a guess. A lot of Japanese makers and retailers work on this model, with 8+ collections a season for the domestic market. The prices are not quite luxury, but they aren't Zara either. So, possibly, yes. Whether this can be done at scale, it's hard to say. But any solution has to be done at scale. No shareholders or private equity is going to be happy with "hey, we can do a great job if we were a much, much, smaller company". They didn't pay to shrink.

 

[clee1982]

I don't know how long it takes SuitSupply to come up with stuff, but looks like they're semi like this model and doing reasonably ok?