1. Hi, I'm the owner and main administrator of Styleforum. If you find the forum useful and fun, please help support it by buying through the posted links on the forum. Our main, very popular sales thread, where the latest and best sales are listed, are posted HERE

    Purchases made through some of our links earns a commission for the forum and allows us to do the work of maintaining and improving it. Finally, thanks for being a part of this community. We realize that there are many choices today on the internet, and we have all of you to thank for making Styleforum the foremost destination for discussions of menswear.
  2. Styleforum Gives - Holiday Charity Auction 12 : Löf and Tung MTO shoes from Skoaktiebolaget

    We are very proud to present this year's edition of the Styleforum Holiday Charity Auctions, this year in support of the Ronald McDonald House Charities of Spokane (www.rmhcspokane.org). Each Auction lasts 24 hours. Please follow and bid on all the auctions.

    The 12th auction of the year is for a pair of Löf and Tung MTO (made-to-order) shoes from Skoaktiebolaget. Please bid often and generously here

    Fok and the Styleforum Team.

The CM Graveyard: First Sartoria Partenopea... next J. Crew?

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by jrd617, Jun 13, 2017.

  1. Ich_Dien

    Ich_Dien Distinguished Member

    Messages:
    6,508
    Likes Received:
    998
    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2007
    Location:
    Venezia, Italy
    Huntsman always has been the most expensive on The Row, indeed, I think they pride themselves on it.
     

  2. Riva

    Riva Distinguished Member

    Messages:
    2,324
    Likes Received:
    1,185
    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2013
    Location:
    Everywhere
    Depends on how big your hedgefund is :)
     

  3. Riva

    Riva Distinguished Member

    Messages:
    2,324
    Likes Received:
    1,185
    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2013
    Location:
    Everywhere
    I've been thinking about this. Is there actually any arrogant hyped tailors with long waiting lists that are akin to the Patek dealership with their "inheritance worthy" steel Nautilus?
     

  4. am55

    am55 Distinguished Member

    Messages:
    2,408
    Likes Received:
    1,459
    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2014
    Huntsman was the top name for people who believe in top names, and then underwent a series of experiments (such as RTW jackets in loud tweeds) and changes in ownership which makes that statement a more dubious proposition, especially after the man responsible for the core two decades of it buggered off with the head salesman to set up no. 13 and wrote a book about it (quite an interesting read IMO). They're worth it if you like that style.

    Both are cheaper than the Parisians which is partly why Savile Row tailors tend to have changes of ownership before being replaced by the likes of Abercrombie, even with a RTW line subsidising it whilst the Parisians can afford tons of local staff.

    My own amateurish conclusion was that good tailoring is dependent not just on talent but on volume, that is there is no standard way of doing things and only through experience do you learn how to make things fit well. How to find an experienced team is the difficult bit.

    (I suspect you knew all this but couldn't quite read your tone)
     

  5. am55

    am55 Distinguished Member

    Messages:
    2,408
    Likes Received:
    1,459
    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2014
    Dylan & Son supposedly are a bit like that, especially if you have special requests. It may be worth enduring as it is a fraction of SR or Paris and is made on the premises (by 4 staff on premise). A D&S suit was, so far, the only Singaporean suit that had me ask my friend who made it. If you dislike Liverano though you probably dislike their work.
     

  6. clee1982

    clee1982 Stylish Dinosaur

    Messages:
    11,493
    Likes Received:
    1,412
    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2009
    Location:
    New York City, NY, USA
    3-4K sounds right...

    Not saying there are not good maker at that price range, i’m sure there are, but you’ll have to work harder to correct things when things doesn’t turn out the way you want. It might not be tailor’s fault, if you go bespoke you have to either

    1. Let the tailor drive
    2. You have a vision and you can communicate to your tailor exactly what that vision is

    The problem I have seen with even sticking with “1” is it fail in the design department, it fits but everything else is boring while still being 3 to 4x of decent RTW on discount.

    The problem with “2” has always been it’s hard to communicate those things (and some might not even be achievable)

    The right approach for most people is of course somewhere between 1 and 2 depends on your experience I suppose
     

  7. smittycl

    smittycl Distinguished Member

    Messages:
    2,007
    Likes Received:
    2,410
    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2012
    Location:
    East Coast
    I love Hickey Freeman. Their Beacon fit works well for me. Nice fabric with lots of Loro Piana. I would offer up HF as source for anyone who wants good CM here in the States. Much better starting point for a wardrobe than Brooks Brothers. I just picked up a HF wool/cashmere winter sport coat and love it.

    Picture1.jpg

    Samuelsohn is a bit weird. Their Paul Stuart stuff is very nice but the few suits in their own label I've tried on were stiff and chunky.

    What's your opinion on them?
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2018

  8. smittycl

    smittycl Distinguished Member

    Messages:
    2,007
    Likes Received:
    2,410
    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2012
    Location:
    East Coast
    That I can understand and appreciate. Anything cut specifically for you, especially after progressing through several iterations, is ideally going to fit well. I think by "hand made Italians" he was referring to Brioni, Kiton and such, not true bespoke.
     

  9. clee1982

    clee1982 Stylish Dinosaur

    Messages:
    11,493
    Likes Received:
    1,412
    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2009
    Location:
    New York City, NY, USA
    HF is never offered in my size except MTO, so no opinion. Samuelson’s own line is never offered in my size either, though I do like Paul Stuart a lot.
     

  10. Riva

    Riva Distinguished Member

    Messages:
    2,324
    Likes Received:
    1,185
    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2013
    Location:
    Everywhere
    Had the same sizing problem so never tried. Plus been focused on the more exciting cheap rtw scene with all those patterns and colors.
     

  11. Texasmade

    Texasmade Distinguished Member

    Messages:
    5,377
    Likes Received:
    1,463
    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2008
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    I think Richard Anderson charges more now.
     

  12. Loathing

    Loathing Distinguished Member

    Messages:
    1,177
    Likes Received:
    269
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2011
    Location:
    London
    Richard Anderson is £5.4k and Huntsman is £5k. Kilgour is also £5k. Anderson & Sheppard is £4.8k. Dege & Skinner is £4.2k. Henry Poole and Norton & Sons are £4k.
     

  13. smittycl

    smittycl Distinguished Member

    Messages:
    2,007
    Likes Received:
    2,410
    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2012
    Location:
    East Coast
    Not unexpected by still high! Enter the Law of Diminishing Returns. Is it really worth the expense with so much quality MTM and RTW out there? I expect it is for some but I'm beginning to think I've hit my ceiling as far as suit expenditures go. I'm can afford Zegna or Canali at $2-3k retail (even though I usually wait for the sales) but is it worth going bespoke for $5-6k?

    I'm sure it's a great experience. Maybe someday...
     

  14. mafoofan

    mafoofan THE FOO Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    21,554
    Likes Received:
    2,741
    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2007
    This is why three things are critical to getting the most out of bespoke before you've even started your first order:

    1. Pick the house cut (don't expect successful deviations from each firm's norm)
    2. Pick the tailor (this is a people business; you and the tailor need to have good chemistry)
    3. Know your shit (understand nuances of fit, in particular, so that you know when to prod the tailor and when to say nothing)

    Once all that is done, balancing #1 and #2 as you've described will come more naturally and will more likely yield success. You'll have to feel things out with your tailor. Generally, they thrive on positive, constructive, knowledgeable back-and-forth. I have not met a single tailor that you can reliably leave on full auto-pilot.

    It is not a matter of "quality" in the manner you seem to be describing. It is really a different sort of product altogether.

    After all, there are RTW suits made better than very expensive bespoke suits. What, ideally, you are paying for with top-end bespoke is not merely superior workmanship, but an iterative process aiming at a unique and exceptional result. At it's best, bespoke should exceed whatever you've come to expect from off-the-rack or MTM, as you and the tailor will refine and discover in a way simply not possible otherwise. Don't think of the suit you would get, but the suit that has yet to become.

    To put it in more concrete terms, done right, bespoke is more comfortable, more flattering, better made, more exact to your preferences, and as I've said before, more "3D". It is difficult to describe that last part, but think about it this way perhaps: all RTW suits are in part designed and cut for hanger appeal, whereas bespoke suits on a hanger tend to look like deflated alien egg sacks. That's because they are shaped and sculpted in consideration of your body in all three dimensions. Really good bespoke looks rounded and shaped around the torso and chest, such that you tend to look narrower and wider where most flattering, without requiring a tighter fit or sacrifice in comfort. It also ought to look and feel better across a broader range of motions, whereas RTW often seems designed to look best standing still.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2018

  15. lordsuperb

    lordsuperb Distinguished Member

    Messages:
    4,028
    Likes Received:
    3,208
    Joined:
    May 30, 2009
    Right, I just don’t see the value of a tailor charging a ridiculous price for a suit if the process is iterative. A 6,500 dollar suit doesn’t give one much room or confidence to order more jawns if the first suit is a DUD.

    Did anyone follow the Medtech thread where he bought a suit from Richard Anderson? The suit wasnt that great and wouldn’t give me much confidence about the bespoke process. Which is why some members (i.e. me) sample different tailors or go back to RTW. I’ve come to realization that a working business relationship with one tailor is ideal.

    But in an ideal world Hickey Freeman would update the styling of their suits and offer better fabric selections so I didn’t have to go the tailored route.

    The right approach is to save your money and wear khakis and a polo to the office.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2018

Share This Page

Styleforum is proudly sponsored by

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.