The CHESS Thread

[LA Guy]

no c5 is not even a choice , not enough tempo .

I don’t understand what you mean. It’s just an escape path for his king to c5, since it’s right now trapped in last two ranks since d6 is closed to him. It might not even be the best choice. Since I suck at chess, it’s very probably not the best move. Honestly, why don’t you just try mirror the board, play both sides in the position, and see what I mean. Start with black Kd7 and Qe7. White has Rg7 and Qh8, white to move.

Move white, and I’ll tell you what is playable as black. Maybe there is a forced checkmate, but we can explore the entire solution space. You are saying that there is imminent checkmate with queen, rook, and bishop. I’m simply pointing out that that’s not the case. In a perfect game, there is no forced mate in 3. In certain scenarios, you can lose both queen and rook. I’m not saying that you won’t win, I’m saying that you do not have a forced checkmate presently.

There is a categorical difference between “I think my opponent will miss and I will checkmate” and “Even Magnus Carlsen can’t escape this smother checkmate”. In the former, sure, maybe. In the second, every move is forced and is just the noose getting tighter. Maybe this exists here, but your plan of attack is not it. Again, I suck. I mean, I’m learning a few openings and end games, but I suck. But if you give me a smother checkmate against Magnus Carlsen (somewhere I could never get to, not in a lifetime of games, most likely) I will win as long as I know the move sequence and do it’s properly.

 

[double00]

I don’t understand what you mean. It’s just an escape path for his king to c5, since it’s right now trapped in last two ranks since d6 is closed to him. It might not even be the best choice. Since I suck at chess, it’s very probably not the best move. Honestly, why don’t you just try mirror the board, play both sides in the position, and see what I mean. Start with black Kd7 and Qe7. White has Rg7 and Qh8, white to move.

Move white, and I’ll tell you what is playable as black. Maybe there is a forced checkmate, but we can explore the entire solution space. You are saying that there is imminent checkmate with queen, rook, and bishop. I’m simply pointing out that that’s not the case. In a perfect game, there is no forced mate in 3. In certain scenarios, you can lose both queen and rook. I’m not saying that you won’t win, I’m saying that you do not have a forced checkmate presently.

There is a categorical difference between “I think my opponent will miss and I will checkmate” and “Even Magnus Carlsen can’t escape this smother checkmate”. In the former, sure, maybe. In the second, every move is forced and is just the noose getting tighter. Maybe this exists here, but your plan of attack is not it. Again, I suck. I mean, I’m learning a few openings and end games, but I suck. But if you give me a smother checkmate against Magnus Carlsen (somewhere I could never get to, not in a lifetime of games, most likely) I will win as long as I know the move sequence and do it’s properly.

it may be that cm is not imminent but there will not be an oppo to move the pawn let alone the king to the c6 *hole* , there's just not enough tempo for them to have the spare move . i'm forcing their king .

if the king moves to c7 i take the queen . if the king takes my bishop at e6 the escape route is gone . c5 is covered by my pawn . i'm unsure what you are seeing but am quite in control of this game at this point . once i take the rook and possibly pawn i'm +9 and hunting queen . the king is not defending anything here , honestly if i want i'll simply trade my rook for their queen .

***

anyways sure . starting from your position as you describe .



so ok let's try this . be6 check your move .

 

[LA Guy]

it may be that cm is not imminent but there will not be an oppo to move the pawn let alone the king to the c6 *hole* , there's just not enough tempo for them to have the spare move . i'm forcing their king .

if the king moves to c7 i take the queen . if the king takes my bishop at e6 the escape route is gone . c5 is covered by my pawn . i'm unsure what you are seeing but am quite in control of this game at this point . once i take the rook and possibly pawn i'm +9 and hunting queen . the king is not defending anything here , honestly if i want i'll simply trade my rook for their queen .

***

anyways sure . starting from your position as you describe .

View attachment 1970449

so ok let's try this . be6 check your move .

Ke6 takes the bishop.

 

[LA Guy]

Ke6 takes the bishop.

Honestly, we could just have stockfish play this out on both sides for like, 6 moves, maximum depth, and see what it does.

Like, this is fine, but frankly, other than showing that the king can run, this can show nothing else. This is white belt jiujitsu. This is manic playing with minimal understanding of theoretical lines. Like, I guess that the question is, if this is a done deal, would you be comfortable handing off the black pieces to Magnus Carlsen and be like "This is done." If you gave me a smother checkmate against Magnus, I would still win it. If you gave me a rook ladder, which my king safely on the other side, and his king not in some special casse to either rook, also a done deal. I mean, if I lost, it would be due to a blunder, but if I follow the ladder method, he will still lose, even though in an actual game, he could beat me no matter what the odds.

 

[double00]

Honestly, we could just have stockfish play this out on both sides for like, 6 moves, maximum depth, and see what it does.

Like, this is fine, but frankly, other than showing that the king can run, this can show nothing else. This is white belt jiujitsu. This is manic playing with minimal understanding of theoretical lines. Like, I guess that the question is, if this is a done deal, would you be comfortable handing off the black pieces to Magnus Carlsen and be like "This is done." If you gave me a smother checkmate against Magnus, I would still win it. If you gave me a rook ladder, which my kinfras

nope i've simply got the game in control , at the least i will get opponents queen and preserve my rook and queen . try it , it's all worked out

so ke6 . ill play f5 . if you haven't noticed your king hasn't run

 

[LA Guy]

nope i've simply got the game in control , at the least i will get opponents queen and preserve my rook and queen . try it , it's all worked out

so ke6 . ill play f5

Anyway, your move. Bishop is gone. Black is Qe7, Ke6, so it's already not checkmate in 2, since both sides have 3 moves down and the black king is not in check and captured the white bishop.

 

[double00]

pawn to f5 ( if i wasn't clear ) , your move

i'll edit to add : check

 

[LA Guy]

nope i've simply got the game in control , at the least i will get opponents queen and preserve my rook and queen . try it , it's all worked out

so ke6 . ill play f5 . if you haven't noticed your king hasn't run

Um, before we continue, let's keep in mind what you originally wrute:

"they are forced to move ke8 , i go qh8 , they probably move ke7 and i cm with rg7"

I pointed out that there is continuation, which there is, even with my truly atrocious, now 2 month old chess. We are now on move 4,

Lessee, Kd7.

 

[double00]

Um, before we continue, let's keep in mind what you originally wrute:

"they are forced to move ke8 , i go qh8 , they probably move ke7 and i cm with rg7"

I pointed out that there is continuation, which there is, even with my truly atrocious, now 2 month old chess. We are now on move 4,

Lessee, Kd7.

pawn to f6 .

i'm just a white belt myself

did you find the escape ?

 

[double00]

btw in this scenario i take *your* proxy queen and promote to have a 2nd queen . i think i'm doing ok , the game is in control ( and i used my specified pieces )

 

[LA Guy]

Sorry, let's restart from the original position after bishop takes. Just reset the board a bit just for study. Instead of taking, I go Kc7.

Apologies to all.

 

[LA Guy]

Right, so, your move. White and black bishops are looking at each other.

 

[double00]

ok , after bishop takes e6 , in the case of kc7 :

i most likely take queen with rook re7 , but just for funzies lets go with qf8 .

i'll edit again that - as a white belt - i think my position is decisive and i'll force the issue sooner or later , maybe i'll get schooled but

against my actual opponent i think i will win

i'll edit again : i have the line lets do it !

 

[LA Guy]

ok let me see imma edit this post . kc7 after bishop takes e6 .

Yeah, I mean, tne point is not that I can play better chess than you, that would probably be inaccurate. My point was simply that there was continuation, and that the game was not really settled (unlike the smother checkmate example I gave earlier).

 

[double00]

Yeah, I mean, tne point is not that I can play better chess than you, that would probably be inaccurate. My point was simply that there was continuation, and that the game was not really settled (unlike the smother checkmate example I gave earlier).

and my point was that there was not really continuation once i had my queen rook and bishop involved . it's your move

anyways i don't think that im better than you i rather think we are about par on the curve and in our own ways ( which to me is best ! ) . i look at things a certain way and appreciate your willingness to adopt somebody else's position ! imho that's super game and fun .

i'll update with the outcome we sometimes do a move a day so