The Bespoke Shoes Thread

[dieworkwear]

Regarding bespoke in general, I'm between the two views above. I neither think bespoke is some great thing nor do I think people should avoid it unless they're able to try on the final item before paying.

Personally, I've had very mixed experiences with bespoke. It definitely helps to be communicative, but ... the field is also just very uneven. At least when you take into account bespoke as a whole (so, also tailoring). There are just a lot of bad makers out there. Or sometimes a mismatch between you and the company.

When the stuff goes well, nothing compares. But things don't always go well, and someone else's experiences may not be indicative of what will happen for you. I still buy bespoke clothes and shoes, but would recommend it cautiously to other people.

None of my bad bespoke experiences, however, compare to my experience at Clev. Or Shack's experience. It's not just the bad shoes, it's also the service. And it's not just a lack of service, but just an insane level of unprofessionalism.

When I posted my comments on here last year (maybe it was two years ago), a few people who lurk this thread reached out to me to say they experienced something similar. I'm again shocked at how they can survive as a business with this kind of reputation.

 

[clee1982]

how about just the pragmatic approach, if rtw fits you well (but I guess sometimes hard to just what's well without comparison) don't bother, if not go bespoke. Or if rtw fits well you can still go to trunk show and ask a maker if fit can be improved (not GC though...), if not, stick with RTW...

 

[dieworkwear]

how about just the pragmatic approach, if rtw fits you well (but I guess sometimes hard to just what's well without comparison) don't bother, if not go bespoke. Or if rtw fits well you can still go to trunk show and ask a maker if fit can be improved (not GC though...), if not, stick with RTW...

For dress shoes, I don't really wear anything anymore besides Edward Green and Templeman. My other shoes just don't get any use. And I mostly wear EG at this point because I don't have Templeman shoes in those styles.

Clothing for me at this point is purely about joy. I don't need any more clothes. I could go the rest of my life and not buy a single thing ever again. So the buying and wearing process is purely about having fun. I get more joy out of wearing my EG and Templeman shoes. I fit fine in RTW, but the feeling just isn't there for me with some companies.

Some people get a lot of joy out of their favorite brand of shoes, and I wouldn't say my feeling is better or anything. Personally think people should just try things out and see how they like it. Find what makes you feel excited.

 

[clee1982]

totally agree, though just think in general bespoke is a very expensive "trial" so there is that.

 

[marlinspike]

For dress shoes, I don't really wear anything anymore besides Edward Green and Templeman. My other shoes just don't get any use. And I mostly wear EG at this point because I don't have Templeman shoes in those styles.

Clothing for me at this point is purely about joy. I don't need any more clothes. I could go the rest of my life and not buy a single thing ever again. So the buying and wearing process is purely about having fun. I get more joy out of wearing my EG and Templeman shoes. I fit fine in RTW, but the feeling just isn't there for me with some companies.

Some people get a lot of joy out of their favorite brand of shoes, and I wouldn't say my feeling is better or anything. Personally think people should just try things out and see how they like it. Find what makes you feel excited.

My issue with RTW if I were a rich guy and not a foot problem guy - I couldn't justify spending more than Alden money on RTW. Yes, I acknowledge EG makes a really fine shoe (many years ago when they were less well known here they sent a rep many shoes in my nominal size with the hope one would fit me), but I can't justify over $1k for a RTW shoe when the same money gets me bespoke.

 

[clee1982]

$1k get you good bespoke shoe? where? I mean real bespoke.

 

[clee1982]

now I don't pay the current $1.6k? EG price RTW either because there are so much RTW option these days (and mostly sub $1k), especially handwelt that wasn't available before.

 

[marlinspike]

$1k get you good bespoke shoe? where? I mean real bespoke.

Well, change the $ to EUR and you can get the aforementioned A. Maftei. I believe when I was in Vienna Materna was around 1800 Euro. Isn't Jan Kielman also around $1k?

 

[clee1982]

oh 1k Euro, I have seen Maftei, not a fan of the aesthetics, Jan Kielman maybe, if they come to the US I'll definitely show up and take a peek I suppose.

 

[marlinspike]

oh 1k Euro, I have seen Maftei, not a fan of the aesthetics, Jan Kielman maybe, if they come to the US I'll definitely show up and take a peek I suppose.

He can do some different things, they don't all make the IG. Mine will never make IG bc the proportions of my feet require some strange things of the shoe, but here's my most recent pair.

(ignore the side creasing, he has to make a section for my foot...it's unfortunate but still better than a 50/50 surgery)

 

[clee1982]

Feel very "Vass" for lack of better word

 

[marlinspike]

Feel very "Vass" for lack of better word

Ah, yeah, one of my favorites aesthetically though lol.To me these are a bit slimmer though. I don't know what he could do for a normal foot, but this is very sleek for someone whose 13 6E New Balance are still too narrow.

 

[clee1982]

that's some size you got there

 

[marlinspike]

that's some size you got there

Yeah....it's a curse not a blessing. I sent off a fit sheet to Nick's Boots today (not quite bespoke but maybe close enough to be ok here). They are going to see if they can find anyway to fit me in a work boot. At the arch with no weight on it (i.e. where the narrowest part of the foot should be), my contact patch is 3.5 inches and my entire foot is 4.5 inches wide. Rancourt's 13EE on their widest boost last measured 3 inches there.

 

[dieworkwear]

It's crazy to me that a small defect on RTW shoes will be scrutinized to death. People will post lengthy reviews online, and they'll talk about how the shoes arrived with this teeny weeny itsy bitsy little scuff on the sole. This happens with Meermin, AE Seconds, and basically any shoe that costs under $300. People will literally use a macro lens to take photos of their shoes, pointing out faults.

But with bespoke, so few people are willing to talk about bad experiences. I don't think Shack's response is unusual -- many people feel they should be flattering to makers. Some have great reverence for the craft. Some are also very excited about thier purchase. Buying bespoke shoes also isn't as "transactional" as buying ready-to-wear.

A tailor recently pointed this out to me. He offers alterations, made to measure, and bespoke services. Alterations, of course, is the most affordable service, and he says it causes him the most trouble. He thinks it's because people run in and out of the shop. If you're getting something altered, you drop off your thing and go. If you order bespoke, you are at least required to sit down for a while, choose the fabric, get measured, and likely have a convo during that time. It's much more of a human interaction.

For his bespoke customers, he says people are more flexible. With alterations, people are much more demanding. I'm sure there's a Marxist theory somewhere in here about how transactional exchanges negate the humanity of the person. Bespoke is much less transactional, in that sense.

A customer should be communicative, but there's also a natural tendency here to be nice. I don't think that part is unusual, or Shack's fault. You see it everywhere on this forum and others -- people are not as critical of bespoke tailors, whereas people who buy affordable things are like the Roger Ebert of clothing and shoe reviews.

Even if Shack was communicative with Clev, does anyone here think the outcome would have been different? Perhaps it would have, but I have my doubts. It's not that Junior is right in pointing out Shacks' earlier emails, it's that he's using those as an excuse. If Shack had brought up the issues earlier, I'm sure he would have found another excuse.