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So, it's all about the bottom line--price. Which, in anyone's world, is not the same as "better or best they can." Unless you're really talking about better profits.
Which kind of makes my point.
well lots of small ish chinese factory moved from blake to gyw to hw in less than a decade, so at least it's getting pretty easy to buy sub $1k hw these days...
Would be interesting to hear your opinion, believe Lu Yang is based in Hangzhou, that’s my wife’s home town so at least some chance I might make it there in the next 5 years...
Nothing against Chinese businesses but personally as a European I would rather buy an amazing GYW shoe from a shoemaker with an amazing legacy like Crockett and Jones and help this trade staying alive rather than buying online from the opposite side of the world.
Just my 2 cents!
When you write this, I can't for the world see how you actually read and understood my first post. Or my other posts either, for that matter. I paste the sort of key sentence again, to give it another try: "they try to make the best shoes they can for the price point and market segment they aim to be in." Following the next most important sentences (in relation to the topic that was to be discussed): "That does not necessarily mean taking shortcuts all the time. Lots of brands choose to raise prices instead of declining the product, if needed, since they don't want to put out a less good product than what they always have done."
I don't think I can be more clear. I give up.
that use to be an easy call, but now CJ price buys you a HW Chinese shoe that's made better (not just handwelt alone, the waist, the heel all done better). I still buy Antonio Meccariello from Italy, but I really wish the English guys continue to step up. CJ has aesthetic appeal to me, especially its country shoes, but they really need to start doing more to be more competitive (at least from my stand point of view).
I think Allen Edmonds is a pretty good example of one of the issues at hand. 15 years ago, they made fairly decent to bordering on good quality shoes, in the US, with many sizes, lasts and widths. Between then and now, they've made 2nd quality shoes a core part of their business model, moved much of their production out of the country, use **** materials, terrible QC and raised prices dramatically. So now, they are a **** product at a higher price.
So far as I can tell, they big difference is that they've gone through the hands of several private equity groups who have all wanted to extract "value", which I'm sure they've done. I dont think all shoes should be handwelted and I acknowledge that there is a place for shoes at a whole host of price points, but there does seem to be something of a race to the bottom that often happens.
As to @DWFII point about materials equalizing over time, there is something to be said for that. When large manufacturers like AE shift to using inferior materials, it shifts the production of a plethora of adjacent industries. People stop producing higher quality materials because they cost more to produce and are in lower demand. Over time this compounds. At some stage, even if you wanted to produce a higher quality GYW shoe, you couldnt because the materials are no longer available or are produced in such small quantities so as to make it impractical. impossible.
As a consumer, this has a direct and negative impact on me. Over time, it seems that the quality of the industry as a whole declines as prices rise. There are of course bright spots, but they are spots.
how much for a shoe made out of plastic bags to keep the spirit of the argument going?!? Preferably green alligator suede plastic
Yeah I understand what you mean and I can partially agree. Surely these 'modern' HW brands tick all the boxes: handwelted, super thin waists, aggressive lasts, small tapered heels etc... but I still need to see a picture of a 5-10yo Chinese shoe that has been used, loved and resoled!
I think Allen Edmonds is a pretty good example of one of the issues at hand. 15 years ago, they made fairly decent to bordering on good quality shoes, in the US, with many sizes, lasts and widths. Between then and now, they've made 2nd quality shoes a core part of their business model, moved much of their production out of the country, use **** materials, terrible QC and raised prices dramatically. So now, they are a **** product at a higher price.
So far as I can tell, they big difference is that they've gone through the hands of several private equity groups who have all wanted to extract "value", which I'm sure they've done. I dont think all shoes should be handwelted and I acknowledge that there is a place for shoes at a whole host of price points, but there does seem to be something of a race to the bottom that often happens.
As to @DWFII point about materials equalizing over time, there is something to be said for that. When large manufacturers like AE shift to using inferior materials, it shifts the production of a plethora of adjacent industries. People stop producing higher quality materials because they cost more to produce and are in lower demand. Over time this compounds. At some stage, even if you wanted to produce a higher quality GYW shoe, you couldnt because the materials are no longer available or are produced in such small quantities so as to make it impractical. impossible.
As a consumer, this has a direct and negative impact on me. Over time, it seems that the quality of the industry as a whole declines as prices rise. There are of course bright spots, but they are spots.
You’re in luck! I have secured a small lot of deadstock vintage plastic bags from an old Russian baggery. You heard about the reindeer from Metta Catharina right? well this stuff is also sourced from the sea! This is the real deal veg bag like the olden days, with a beautiful umm.. “oceanic” odour. Hurry as there’s only at least 50 years supply left!how much for a shoe made out of plastic bags to keep the spirit of the argument going?!? Preferably green alligator suede plastic
You’re in luck! I have secured a small lot of deadstock vintage plastic bags from an old Russian baggery. You heard about the reindeer from Metta Catharina right? well this stuff is also sourced from the sea! This is the real deal veg bag like the olden days, with a beautiful umm.. “oceanic” odour. Hurry as there’s only at least 50 years supply left!
Green suede gatorskin in that Russian baggery?You’re in luck! I have secured a small lot of deadstock vintage plastic bags from an old Russian baggery. You heard about the reindeer from Metta Catharina right? well this stuff is also sourced from the sea! This is the real deal veg bag like the olden days, with a beautiful umm.. “oceanic” odour. Hurry as there’s only at least 50 years supply left!