The Bespoke Shoes Thread

[Texasmade]

Thanks for confirming my suspicions. I'm glad you returned them. As I was telling @patrickBOOTH such excess makes it hard for the toes of the foot to control the forepart of the shoes. And sometimes the customer can get blisters on his toes because forepart of the shoe and by association, the toe stiffener crease in the wrong spot.

Pulled out my shoes for the first time since Corona. The top of my thumb is where my big toe ends.

 

[DWFII]

Pulled out my shoes for the first time since Corona. The top of my thumb is where my big toe ends.

Looks about right, IMO.

 

[ntempleman]

I'd be interested in knowing in how this all came out. Given the tape measure on the floor, I'm thinking there must be two full inches (or close by) of clearance between the end of the foot and the inside end of the shoe.

Seems inordinately excessive to me.

Maybe it's just the photo or an early stage in the fitting process, but all the literature suggestss 3 full sizes (each size being 1/3 of an inch) clearance for a medium round toe.

IMO, FWIW...

Traditional Lobb teaching dictates 2.5 sizes over the measurement of the pencil outline’s length at all times, for all styles, no deviation, no arguments. Some makers knows for a particular look will just go as long as they have to in order to get the toe shape regardless of the foot shape. 5 sizes, 6 sizes over? Sure, why not

 

[j ingevaldsson]

Traditional Lobb teaching dictates 2.5 sizes over the measurement of the pencil outline’s length at all times, for all styles, no deviation, no arguments. Some makers knows for a particular look will just go as long as they have to in order to get the toe shape regardless of the foot shape. 5 sizes, 6 sizes over? Sure, why not

If a big footed customer wants a pointy toe, sounds like there can be quite some toe squeezing going on to solve the +2,5 sizes in toe space... But maybe Lobb have never had a customer asking for that type of toe

 

[ntempleman]

Just curve it round like Beckham. Used to have to just slip lasts through and hope the fit was ok to get it out the door. If the fit wasn’t right and the shoes were checked over, the problem was usually because you didn’t stick to 2.5 over somehow

 

[DWFII]

Well, just for reference, Traditionally (Sabbage aside), one full size is one barley corn or 1/3" or approx. 5/16"...so two and a half full sizes would be just a little under 3/4". The photos of @Texasmades fitter's models (post #2596), were at least double that, if not more. I don't know how the the maker/fitter could ever have thought that was acceptable.

I was taught, and IIRC, I have read (where I am not sure...Golding? Thornton?) that the Traditional standard is three full sizes for medium round toes and two full sizes (the width of a man's thumb) for wide round toes. I suspect some interpretation can be applied--what exactly defines "medium round", etc?.

As far as narrow, pointy toes, we generally use four or even five sizes clearance...and some of that can be an insole plug...but never more. We'd recommend against a narrow toe, altogether, if the foot could not be fit within those parameters.

As for "why not?" When too much clearance beyond the toes of the foot is afforded, the toe of the shoe will tend to curl up simply because the foot cannot control the end of the shoe. That, in turn (aside from being unsightly) can produce deep creases that can be very uncomfortable. Eventually it will also elevate the forepart of the foot which can threaten the skeletal and muscular integrity of the foot.

We see this curling on point-y toed boots all the time, esp. out of Mexico which seems to have a cultural affinity for it. But again, to be healthy for the foot, it has to be within the range of control.

PS I would call the toe of the shoe that @Texasmade posted above (#2611) 'medium round.'

FWIW...

 

[Manuel]

That fitting shoe was pretty bad indeed, were made several more before final shoe, Daniel did struggle with my feet. But to state that “he doesn't have much idea of making custom shoes” from looking at these pics, is quite obscene TBH. The reputation G&G built up with Daniel as lastmaker, and the amount of pleased customers wearing shoes made on his lasts, proves quite a lot more than you commenting on a couple of pictures from one fitting, I would say.

And looking at experience, he has worked 10+ years as a bespoke shoemaker, but during that time worked as a lastmaker during regular hours, then at home in evenings, nights and weekends did another full time employee round as a bottom maker (he did more bottom making on his spare time then the hired bottom makers did a week), so one could say that he have 20 years of experience, looking at it that way. I’m not sure where the “20 shoes per year comes from”, maybe that’s what you do?

So I don't understand what could have happened?
A person with so much experience does not need to try that shoe on a foot considered normal, take a good look at the images it seems that the shoe is not from the customer.
I wonder what would do it Vass, Lobb, Gaziano would do ... if one day a different clients like these comes ...
these and don't tell me that this is done by specialized people because it is not true, they are shoemakers as they have gone from working with normal feet to different ones.

This man's work is second to none. I was impressed a lot of.Daniel....
I do not mean this specific man, when I write I do it in a general way and contributing my knowledge and experience in all fields.
When people pay for a custom shoe, they do not do it to put it on the furniture in their house, they do it to be able to walk well, painlessly and comfortably.


Perhaps it would be very necessary to take a look at what DWF II wrote in reference to taking measurements, to observation and even to the psychological aspect ...... as he says, in short, carrying out all this and understanding it is something "almost magical" ........ and that is very difficult and complicated, you may not understand it yourself, I do.

The answer to your question is no, I have not done 20 pairs of shoes per year, the monthly measure was 60 pairs and at the end of the year between 600 and 800 pairs of all kinds of feet, good, bad and regular and all kinds of shoes and boots ..... And a waiting list of 7-8 months continuously for years ....
On the other hand I do not think this is interesting since we are talking about a topic about measurements, tests, broken shoes ....... this is what interests people interested in making a good pair of shoes or boots to measure with a perfect fit.

 

[DWFII]

FWIW...

Boots and Shoes, F.Y. Golding, Vol. 1, Section 2--The Making of Lasts, New Era Publishing Co., Ltd., London

PP 228

The last must be made longer than the foot, and consequently, the sole pattern also.This increase depends on the width and shape of the toe required, whether pointed or square, receding or upright. For average purposes with a man's foot, say, size 7, the extension might be 2-1/2 sizes for a square toe, 3 sizes medium toe, and 3-1/2 to 4 sizes pointed toe.

(emphasis mine)

 

[willyto]

FWIW...

Boots and Shoes, F.Y. Golding, Vol. 1, Section 2--The Making of Lasts, New Era Publishing Co., Ltd., London

PP 228

(emphasis mine)

Thank you for the information.

Thanks for confirming my suspicions. I'm glad you returned them. As I was telling @patrickBOOTH such excess makes it hard for the toes of the foot to control the forepart of the shoes. And sometimes the customer can get blisters on his toes because the forepart of the shoe and by association, the toe stiffener, crease in the wrong spot.

I've had this happen to me with shoes that are longer. They are the ones that actually cause me a bit of pain if I walk a lot that day because the stiffener rubs against the beginning of the toes. I noticed and after measuring the outsoles(Not a very reliable way I suppose) I concluded that those with a longer lenght gave me trouble. They were also roomier on the vamp which all added up.

 

[j ingevaldsson]

So I don't understand what could have happened?
A person with so much experience does not need to try that shoe on a foot considered normal, take a good look at the images it seems that the shoe is not from the customer.
I wonder what would do it Vass, Lobb, Gaziano would do ... if one day a different clients like these comes ...
these and don't tell me that this is done by specialized people because it is not true, they are shoemakers as they have gone from working with normal feet to different ones.

This man's work is second to none. I was impressed a lot of.Daniel....
I do not mean this specific man, when I write I do it in a general way and contributing my knowledge and experience in all fields.
When people pay for a custom shoe, they do not do it to put it on the furniture in their house, they do it to be able to walk well, painlessly and comfortably.


Perhaps it would be very necessary to take a look at what DWF II wrote in reference to taking measurements, to observation and even to the psychological aspect ...... as he says, in short, carrying out all this and understanding it is something "almost magical" ........ and that is very difficult and complicated, you may not understand it yourself, I do.

The answer to your question is no, I have not done 20 pairs of shoes per year, the monthly measure was 60 pairs and at the end of the year between 600 and 800 pairs of all kinds of feet, good, bad and regular and all kinds of shoes and boots ..... And a waiting list of 7-8 months continuously for years ....
On the other hand I do not think this is interesting since we are talking about a topic about measurements, tests, broken shoes ....... this is what interests people interested in making a good pair of shoes or boots to measure with a perfect fit.

Sorry, but I don't understand what you are talking about. So you mean that when you wrote:

"It means that he doesn't have much idea of making custom shoes, yes, I know that he is a champion in making competition shoes, but that has nothing to do with working to measure."

or:

"Have you observed the shoe arrangement? That image speaks for itself, he has no idea how the lasts are arranged, I am sorry but I see it at a great distance.
As I said before, it is very easy to distinguish who knows how to work from who does not know how to do it."

You did "not mean this specific man"? Really?

I say it again: "to state that “he doesn't have much idea of making custom shoes” from looking at these pics, is quite obscene TBH. The reputation G&G built up with Daniel as lastmaker, and the amount of pleased customers wearing shoes made on his lasts, proves quite a lot more than you commenting on a couple of pictures from one fitting, I would say."

And you do realise that the customer in the pictures is me, right? You don't think I know more of how it is to wear shoes made by him, then you do by looking at a couple of photos from a first fitting?

And you're right, how many shoes you've made doesn't matter at all, you could be the best shoemaker who have ever lived, everything above would still apply.

 

[Manuel]

Sorry, but I don't understand what you are talking about. So you mean that when you wrote:

"It means that he doesn't have much idea of making custom shoes, yes, I know that he is a champion in making competition shoes, but that has nothing to do with working to measure."

or:

"Have you observed the shoe arrangement? That image speaks for itself, he has no idea how the lasts are arranged, I am sorry but I see it at a great distance.
As I said before, it is very easy to distinguish who knows how to work from who does not know how to do it."

You did "not mean this specific man"? Really?

I say it again: "to state that “he doesn't have much idea of making custom shoes” from looking at these pics, is quite obscene TBH. The reputation G&G built up with Daniel as lastmaker, and the amount of pleased customers wearing shoes made on his lasts, proves quite a lot more than you commenting on a couple of pictures from one fitting, I would say."

And you do realise that the customer in the pictures is me, right? You don't think I know more of how it is to wear shoes made by him, then you do by looking at a couple of photos from a first fitting?

And you're right, how many shoes you've made doesn't matter at all, you could be the best shoemaker who have ever lived, everything above would still apply.

I am aware of what I have written and you have not interpreted it correctly
I can make the most beautiful violin in the world, even add gold and diamonds, but if the violin does not sound good ... the concert player will not buy it, however, someone can buy it to place it as an ornament in his house and just look at it all days. You know what I mean now?

It is one thing to work for the gallery and another totally different work for the public, the shoe that this man made for the "gallery" (world championship of shoemaking) was the best thing I have ever seen, however this did not help him to you a shoe with a good fit without the need to try it, even so you commented that you had to do several more tests ... don't you think it strange? I uploaded a link where he himself admits that these are totally different things.

Perhaps the correct question you should have asked is this: What do you rely on to say that? So I would have explained it to you with images and a video.
If you have a practically normal foot and I take it for granted, someone who is constantly making shoes, measuring, making or preparing lasts, cutting, assembling ... it would not take more than two days to make your pair of shoes, it is more, even doing some tests no more than three or four days at the most and it is a long time.
By the way, when I look at a photograph I do not look at the person, I look at his feet, the characteristics they have, how he is dressed, what socks he wears, what is his heel, what is his bow, what is his position at the time of testing, the environment, the test shoe ....... the final result of the test, that, although it is very difficult, gives me a very approximate idea of what may have happened.

The rest, the process on last arrangements ...... images that reveal what the professional's work system even when someone works to record a video says a lot about the professional and his way of conceiving the trade and what he has learned .

I hope that you are not angry, it is just my personal opinion on a specific process and that will not influence anything, you can simply agree or disagree, just that.

 

[dieworkwear]

Daniel's shoes look nice to me. I don't know what else can be said so long as the shoes fit the customer's feet well, look nice, and aren't tan colored.

 

[BColl_Has_Too_Many_Shoes]

Daniel's shoes look nice to me. I don't know what else can be said so long as the shoes fit the customer's feet well, look nice, and aren't tan colored.

You just felt compelled to add the Tan component to your comment. Surprised you did not include Cordovan as well ?.

 

[dieworkwear]

You just felt compelled to add the Tan component to your comment. Surprised you did not include Cordovan as well ?.

I like cordovan!

Just skeptical of dandy shoes.

 

[BColl_Has_Too_Many_Shoes]

I am aware of what I have written and you have not interpreted it correctly
I can make the most beautiful violin in the world, even add gold and diamonds, but if the violin does not sound good ... the concert player will not buy it, however, someone can buy it to place it as an ornament in his house and just look at it all days. You know what I mean now?

It is one thing to work for the gallery and another totally different work for the public, the shoe that this man made for the "gallery" (world championship of shoemaking) was the best thing I have ever seen, however this did not help him to you a shoe with a good fit without the need to try it, even so you commented that you had to do several more tests ... don't you think it strange? I uploaded a link where he himself admits that these are totally different things.

Perhaps the correct question you should have asked is this: What do you rely on to say that? So I would have explained it to you with images and a video.
If you have a practically normal foot and I take it for granted, someone who is constantly making shoes, measuring, making or preparing lasts, cutting, assembling ... it would not take more than two days to make your pair of shoes, it is more, even doing some tests no more than three or four days at the most and it is a long time.
By the way, when I look at a photograph I do not look at the person, I look at his feet, the characteristics they have, how he is dressed, what socks he wears, what is his heel, what is his bow, what is his position at the time of testing, the environment, the test shoe ....... the final result of the test, that, although it is very difficult, gives me a very approximate idea of what may have happened.

The rest, the process on last arrangements ...... images that reveal what the professional's work system even when someone works to record a video says a lot about the professional and his way of conceiving the trade and what he has learned .

I hope that you are not angry, it is just my personal opinion on a specific process and that will not influence anything, you can simply agree or disagree, just that.

I understand where @Manuel is coming from. He is just stating there is a big difference between competitive art pieces which demonstrate shoemaker skills and talents versus a working shoemaker that has to implement his/her skills on an actual foot. The whole theoretical versus practical argument.

Actually many people took umbridge with that shoe and last year's winner (German gentleman I forgot his name) because they were concept pieces.

Saying that, Wegan's work has been hailed by many. Considering @j ingevaldsson owns his shoes, and many other shoes made by working shoemakers (not just museum pieces), he can speak more definitively on how they fit.