The Bespoke Shoes Thread

[jerrybrowne]

I just received these mountain ram chukkas from Cleverly. They have a purple lining and a rubber sole - for the inevitable Houston hurricanes and flooding.

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Nice!

 

[Ric Borella]

Me and Umberto Cataldo de Pace of http://www.eleganzadelgusto.com/ at http://www.apres-coup.it/ in Milan.

 

[uozay]

Would someone be able to give me an aprox price for Cleverley bespoke shoes?

 

[Texasmade]

Would someone be able to give me an aprox price for Cleverley bespoke shoes?

http://shoegazing.se/english/2017/08/20/buyers-guide-bespoke-prices/

 

[dan'l]

^ thanks for the link; haven’t seen it before.

Anyone have experience with Mannina (bespoke shoemaker in Florence)? They were in the linked overview.

 

[Ziggy S.]

Hi,

This is my first experience with bespoke shoes. Unfortunately, the process went differently than I expected. Please tell me if my expectations are reasonable.
I usually do quite a research before getting something long-lasting and expensive, but I haven't done it this time. I only quickly browsed some threads here to get an inspiration from pictures. That is also why I probably not always use correct terms, I hope that my description is not misleading.
I thought that the concise vision, experienced shoemaker and proper feedback from my side is enough to achieve good result.

I want simple casual derbys with thick rubber sole, nothing special. I have duck feet with high instep and I am tired of going from shop to shop realizing that nothing fits (or if it fits, it doesn't look good).
So I thought it would be great to have bespoke shoes that fit perfectly, look good and last ages.

I thought that the shoemaker will be passionate about the fit and do the best to produce perfectly fitting shoes.
I am afraid that it is not my case, although the shoemaker is considered as one of the best in a (smaller European) country and even has some podiatric background.

I was really patient with the shoemaker (now it has been almost 2 years) and gave him very detailed feedback, but my feeling is that he doesn't want to understand.
I was surprised that he spent very little time observing trial pair on my feet. I thought it is neccessary to peform thorough examination - e.g. touch whole surface to identify tight and loose spots, investigate the wrinkles on the leather, watch the shoe during walking, asking questions etc.
Or is this something special what only Japanese freaks do? It seems pretty basic to me. I always had to tell him what is wrong, instead of him finding out or asking at least.

This is how it went in brief:
1) I payed for the first phase - shoelast and trial shoes. I also brought my old shoes that fit me nicely and told the shoemaker to keep the style, only do the toe little bit more oval.
Although it was a pair of really worn out Riekers with squarish toe (I am aware that marching into a bespoke shop with something like that is almost a crime I thought it would be a great hint for him. I was wrong, it seemed he was not interested.
(or more like annoyed that he has to even look at low-class shoes... and yes, the shoes were clean and didn't smell I left the shoes in the shop to let him compare the shoelast with the old shoes whenever he needs.

2) First trial shoes - totally different style than I expected. Lacing shifted way too forward, toe too long and too high. Too narrow on big/little toe axis. 3 lacing holes instead of 4 (I explicitly requested 4 and the shoes which I brought also have 4).
(btw, I don't know if this is a general characteristic of high instep foot, but I often experienced that if the top of lacing isn't very close to a leg, the shoe doesn't feel properly connected with a foot when walking)
I described what needs to be changed in detail, I even edited the photo of the shoe in photoshop and create before/after animation to make more apparent what I mean.

3) Second trial shoes - again, lacing too forward, toe too high. Although the lack of width caused little blisters on big joint (or more precisely on a head of 1st metatarsus) and on little toe, the toe box felt loose, probably due to unnecessary height.
Also it was loose in area under inner ankle and back of a heel was little sore. I documented everything and sent him the photos. I suggested to make the toe box lower and add some room for the little toe and the big joint.
Then I came to the shop and expected detailed discussion and examination, but the session was very short.

4) Third trial shoes - Finally getting close, but the feel is still not what I expected from a bespoke shoe. It feels loose, the toe is still too high. See the pictures.
I think that the area between instep and forefoot needs to be copied by the shoe more precisely. My hypothesis is that I need the shoe relatively high on sides in this area, but relatively low in the middle. But the shoemaker should know better than I.

Now I have to decide what to do next. I know he will be reluctant to make the fourth trial pair.
But I don't want to risk that the final pair won't fit. From the experience so far, I just don't trust him that he will make the transition from current trial pair to final pair correctly.
Or ask for shoelasts and end it?

What would you do?

Thank you



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[Texasmade]

I would cut my losses and not move forward. Looks like there’s way too much space in the toe box area and the maker isn’t willing to correct it. They are wasting your time at this point. I’m not sure how much you’ve spent already but it doesn’t look like you’re going to get the fit you want.

 

[dieworkwear]

TBH, it's hard to tell how much of that is about the maker and how much of it is about the customer. It sounds like you gave a lot of input throughout the process. From what I've seen on this forum, it seems like orders usually go awry when the client tries to micromanage every little detail. But maybe that maker wasn't delivering at each step -- who knows what really happened.

My feeling is that the bulk of your work, as a customer, is about choosing the right maker. Then you go in, let them do their thing, and give input when asked. If the maker isn't any good, they're not going to become good by you micromanaging them. If they are good, then they don't need you to tell them how to do their job. So fiddling like this doesn't do any good either way.

I don't know what you should do with this order. But from the trial shoes, they don't look like they're going to turn out well. If it were me, I would just pay the person for his time and let the order go. But if you wanted to complete it, I would tell the person to do what they think is best, and not provide any more input. Again, if the person is any good, they don't need you input. If they're bad, your input isn't going to make them into a great shoemaker. Input is mostly about getting the style right (maybe you want a specific style of wingtip or whatever) not basic issues like fit.

This is like going into a restaurant and telling the chef how to cook.

Also, I don't know of any shoemaker who gives up his or her lasts. That would be like asking a tailor to hand over his or her patterns. I would consider it a rude question.

 

[Texasmade]

They don’t hand over the lasts. Those are property of and owned by the shoemaker. Buyer gets the shoes, shoemaker keeps the last.

 

[Ziggy S.]

Thank you for the answers. I won’t continue with the process.

In the first iteration, I wasn’t micromanaging at all, I just handed him old shoes and told him to keep the style. I expected him to deliver shoes with the similar look and perfect fit. I didn’t get neither. So I started micromanaging, because I felt he was pushing me into something I didn’t want. I thought that maybe I wasn’t clear with my request and precise instructions are necessary. But even second pair was not built fully in accordance with my detailed specification. As late as third pair was more or less what I wanted initially. But all three pairs didn’t fit as I expected, they weren’t “hugging”.

Are the lasts any good for the maker? Can he adjust it for someone else with very similar foot shape?

 

[takashi78]

That is indeed a very ill fitting pair of shoes, even for RTW, but bespoke? For me unacceptable.

I echo what the rest have said here, cut your losses and move on.

 

[j ingevaldsson]

Received a new bespoke pair from Gaziano & Girling this week. Some pics below (more here on my blog):

 

[beargonefishing]

Received a new bespoke pair from Gaziano & Girling this week. Some pics below (more here on my blog):

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Those are fantastic. Since the shaft is unlined, is the heal stiffener behind the black piece of leather on the seam?

 

[ntempleman]

One would assume that the line of stitching that runs along the quarters from the tabs to the top of the back is attaching a pocket of lining for the stiffener. Extending that lining to the top covers up the back seam and reinforcement tape which would be both uncomfortable and unsightly

 

[Mr. Moo]

Received a new bespoke pair from Gaziano & Girling this week. Some pics below (more here on my blog):

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These are fantastic. Congratulations.