The Bespoke Shoes Thread

[dieworkwear]

Bothering you guys with another footwear question.

I'm thinking about getting a pair of alligator penny loafers. A friend who has gotten them in the past says that he finds nubuck alligator a bit easier to pair with other things, whereas alligator can otherwise be a bit flashy. Supposedly even with matte alligator, as the scales are so defined.

I just came back from a Cleverley fitting, however, and was impressed by the matte alligator loafers they had on display. To me, they seemed like they would go well with the brown corduroy sport coat and tan trousers I have on today.

Curious if people have an opinion on matte gator, glossy gator, and nubuck gator. I'm only looking at mid to dark brown for the moment. And if it matters at all, I have a pair of brown lizard skin loafers. Was thinking maybe matte gator would be redundant, although I liked the look of today's Cleverley matte gator loafers better than my lizard skins.

Also curious if anyone has commissioned these in the past. Frankly, I don't like most of the gator shoes I've seen on the forum because there seems to be such variation in gator quality/ appearance (lots and lots of ugly skins out there). I assumed nubuck gator would help flatten out the field in terms of variation.

 

[ThinkDerm]

go for the matte gator - likely will age better!

 

[aristoi bcn]

Matte gator like the one that G&G uses is really special. I was told it is normal gator but "shaved" whereas suede gator is much rougher and not as nice.

 

[DWFII]

Personally, I like the appearance of most of suede gator but I suspect the choice has to come down to what you want and are willing to sacrifice.

All leather has a grain surface and one of the most significant characteristics of that surface...esp. when it comes to any of the crocodilians...is its ability to shed water and dirt and to resist abrasion. In this instance, "sueding" the leather means abrading the grain surface...obviating or nullifying those characteristics of water resistance, etc..

But, any leather so treated will have a far greater propensity to pick up and hold dirt, water, etc., than leather where the grain is intact.

High gloss gator/croc is achieved by burnishing the surface and, traditionally was done on veg tanned hides.

The matte gator I've bought and used (and which is a relatively recent introduction) was not shaved. The hide was simply tanned differently--either chrome tanned or some sort of retan (depending on who you spoke with)--but, more importantly, the surface was not burnished.

By inference, matte gator processed in this way (without shaving) will, indeed, probably age better and last longer than other treatments.

Between the two, in my experience the older gloss gator didn't last as long nor was it as supple and flexible as the newer process. But neither of these processes involved damaging or abrading the grain surface.

Shaved or sueded croc presents potential problems in that that regard...because the surface has been "damaged." And, for that reason alone, ought to suggest that longevity or even just the ability to age well might be suspect.

IMPO

 

[bengal-stripe]

l have a pair of alligator loafers in 'lisse' finish. That has a slight silky sheen and is probably the matte finish DW refers to. I also have a watch strap from Maison Rousseau, which is in a deep matte with no sheen whatsoever. Whether that leather is 'shaved', I don't know. I used a watchmaker's loupe and to me the leather looks maybe washed or rubbed down with something acidic or scouring powder. Don't forget, shoe uppers need care; I’m using Saphir’s 'Reptan' which is not designed to produce a high-gloss, but nevertheless once buffed increases the sheen to a degree. Of course, the watchstrap has never been treated with anything; if the strap was treated regularly, it might not be as matte anymore.

Here is a picture showing one of the actual hides used for the shoes (one hide per shoe):



I’m sure, Cleverley’s will not piece the shoes together from some inferior cuts to increase the profit. But it does happen, even in bespoke. I remember a pair of loafers (split-toe, for obvious reasons) where the sides were cut from (inferior) tail and the apron from throat. So the firm had the entire belly (the best part) to use for another shoe.

 

[dieworkwear]

Sorry for the late reply, everyone, but thanks for the input. Been mulling over these choices.

Don't know if I've arrived closer at an answer, but @DWFII's point about durability is a good one. I hadn't thought of that, although I am concerned with how nubuck gator might age. I'm not terribly hard on my shoes, but even my suede shoes have scuffed a bit. Feel like I don't mind on suede calfskin, but it might be a bummer on nubuck gator. Not sure the leather has the same charm once it's all beat-up.

Regarding bengal's point about patching together a shoe from inferior leather, I've been surprised to see how many high-end makers do that. Recently saw a pair of John Lobb's (the Hermes one), where the sides and strap looked dramatically different in scale from the vamp. Looked like something cut from the tail and throat.

One of the reasons why I think I'll go with Nicholas for this order.

@bengal-stripe, what do you wear with those gator slip-ons you own? Do you find they're hard to pair with other things? I assume it's a summer shoe only?

 

[Solari]

Do you guys have pics of the matte vs glossy vs nubuck vs suede alligator?

 

[bdavro23]

Sorry for the late reply, everyone, but thanks for the input. Been mulling over these choices.

Don't know if I've arrived closer at an answer, but @DWFII's point about durability is a good one. I hadn't thought of that, although I am concerned with how nubuck gator might age. I'm not terribly hard on my shoes, but even my suede shoes have scuffed a bit. Feel like I don't mind on suede calfskin, but it might be a bummer on nubuck gator. Not sure the leather has the same charm once it's all beat-up.

Regarding bengal's point about patching together a shoe from inferior leather, I've been surprised to see how many high-end makers do that. Recently saw a pair of John Lobb's (the Hermes one), where the sides and strap looked dramatically different in scale from the vamp. Looked like something cut from the tail and throat.

One of the reasons why I think I'll go with Nicholas for this order.

@bengal-stripe, what do you wear with those gator slip-ons you own? Do you find they're hard to pair with other things? I assume it's a summer shoe only?

I am sure you've thought about this a lot and the heart wants what the heart wants, but I've honestly never seen a pair of gator shoes that I would even think about wearing. I guess I am struggling to understand the appeal. Care to share your thinking?

 

[dieworkwear]

I am sure you've thought about this a lot and the heart wants what the heart wants, but I've honestly never seen a pair of gator shoes that I would even think about wearing. I guess I am struggling to understand the appeal. Care to share your thinking?

Yea, it's a gamble. 99.999% of gator shoes I've seen online I dislike.

That said, I saw these on Will at ASW once, in person, and I thought they looked great.

I think I would want something more subdued, so matte or nubuck.

But agree, most of them look questionable.

 

[bdavro23]

Yea, it's a gamble. 99.999% of gator shoes I've seen online I dislike.

That said, I saw these on Will at ASW once, in person, and I thought they looked great.

View attachment 863739

I think I would want something more subdued, so matte or nubuck.

But agree, most of them look questionable.

Thanks for the response, and I want to stress something: I think there are a number of Alligator shoes, like the above, that are lovely. I just wouldnt/ couldnt wear them. They are an item that in my opinion has a lot of connotation attached to them and that makes them even more difficult for me to envision adding them to the wardrobe. And then the cost... RTW is a couple of grand, I'm sure bespoke would make me weep...

With all that being said, if you have them made make sure to post them so I can gawk at them

 

[DWFII]

They are an item that in my opinion has a lot of connotation attached to them

Curious...what connotation is that?

 

[peppercorn78]

Curious...what connotation is that?

Southern lawyers maybe?? Just guessing...

 

[dieworkwear]

Clearly something bad, like people who post on menswear forums.

 

[Ric Borella]

Hello!

 

[jerrybrowne]

Kind of late to the game here, but I would go matte croc with a little grease in it. Easy to dress up and down, does not look flashy, and the croc has a sophisticated glow to it. Personally would not do suede although had considered it.

And I agree with the sentiments on shiny croc/alligator. Reminds me of 80s Ralph Lauren for some reason. In a bad way.